How accurate is your .45? How accurate are you?

Michael_Aos

Michael_Aos

Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
1,639
I took my GF "plinking" this weekend when we were camping. She shot my Buckmark .22 and S&W 317 "kit gun" .22 revolver. Seemed to enjoy herself. I shot my CZ75B 9mm a little, but not much.

On Sunday morning there was an empty 1lb propane bottle laying around camp, and I was curious what a .45ACP Remington Golden Saber would do to it.

So I hiked up a and over a hill, found a nice spot with a good backstop and fired from behind a tree at about 10yds.

1st shot - dead in line, but 6" low
2nd shot, slightly left, 1" low
3rd shot - slighly left, but in line
4th shot - finally hit it

On the 1 hand, if it had been a person, every shot would have hit (aiming for center of mass), but on the other hand I'd like to think I could consistantly hit a 1lb propane target at 10yds.

I guess I need to shoot this little .45 more often (hasn't seen much range time this year) and I need to verify where it puts Golden Saber's -- now that I think about it, I seem to recall they shot low at the range too.

Mike
 
Yes, a lighter bullet does shoot low. It's faster, and it clears the firearm before recoil can react on the gun. A firearm sighted for traditional weight bullets (in this case 230 grain bullets) will shoot low with 185's, and not just the Golden Saber brand. I have 185 Nosler bullets in a reload that do the same.

The question is, how accurate is the gun, period. For that, take the same sight picture for a complete magazine. If all seven shots make one ragged hole, just three inches low, you have one hell of a gun. Adjust your sights, or if they are fixed, adjust your sight picture.

I have a Tussey Custom that puts all shots into a poker chip. I have a basically stock Colt Enhanced that makes me work for it; that is, good handloads and laying off of the asthma medicine that makes my hand shake. I have a SW 4516 (used only for defense) that tickles me if they all land into a coffee mug.

However, this is your thread. I find Gold Dots easier to group.
 
I've fired .45s that were better used beating someone over the head with, and I also own a vintage gold cup that is much more accurate than I can shoot. Couple of observations and comments, first the only real judge of a firearms accuracy is benchrest shooting, unless you are ***VERY***VERY*** good. There are just too many inherent variables. Next, you can't judge the accuracy, unless you print on paper. I suspect you were attempting to compensate for your "perceived" errors with a little Kentucky windage. This usually just opens up a group. To actually compensate, and adjust sights etc., you need to fire 5-7 rounds, determine a pattern, adjust, repeat the process, as Ichabod said. Also, it's never a good idea to compare apples with oranges, shooting a .45 that you're a little "rusty" with is alot different than the CZ 9mm. Recoil matters, ALOT, particularly in offhand shooting. I can drop more steel plates with a .22 Hi-standard at 50 feet, FASTER than I can with the gold cup, or a S&W .40 Recon. You might be interested in www.gunforums.com .
 
I also agree it could be a lighter bullet causing the low point of impact, if you are shooting the 185 grain Golden Saber. I use the 230 grain Golden Sabers as defense loads in my .45s (Sig, Wilson), and they typically shoot to point of aim at 10 yards. Many .45s are out of the box dialed-in for a 230 grain bullet.

It also depends on the inherent accuracy of the gun, and how much the operator of said gun can extract that level of accuracy.

It sure is fun figuring that out :D
 
Well, considering I have a Gold Cup, and also that I drink coffee....the gun is probably more accurate than me. Especially when I switch to decaf...although then I tend to just blast away as a stress reliever:D .

AB
 
I've shot both Springfield Armories as well as Colts, and they have all been at least as accurate as me - which means within the confines of a house, the BG is going to reach room temperature. For match shooting, the guns need a major tune up and a different shooter. :D

However, since you didn't actually say acp, I have to say that the Casull I shot is far more accurate than I am, and than anything I've shot so far. It will also shoot acp and lc if you have the appropriate cylinders.

I'm partial for SA revolvers, but for semi's, the Colts and clones are pretty fun to shoot, and there's no arguing with a design that has stood the test of time (and war).
 
Back in the 90's when the UK was less un-free, I owned 2 .45s. The first was a lightly-accurized 1944 Colt 1911A1 with improved sights, a trigger job etc. I later owned a Series 70 Gold Cup. The early Colt would group about 3" to 4" at 25 yards off-hand. The GC would group under 3" depending on the load.

I was a competitive bullseye shooter and my competition pistol was a Walther GSP in .32 S&W Long. I have a target framed over my desk as I type. It's the first 100 x 100 I shot in UIT Centrefire competition. I fired it one-handed at 25 yards and the group is a trifle under 2" centre to centre.

I used to shoot for the British police in the Police Athletic Association National Target Pistol Squad. Shortly before handguns were banned, I was invited to start training for the Scottish national pistol squad with a view to international competition.

All of my handguns were seized and destroyed. My 6" Python (serial number 94927), my 6 1/2" S&W Model 29, my 1916 DWM Luger, my Hammerli 208.......

Imagine my delight.

Join the NRA:

https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?campaignid=mynra01

Vote!

maximus otter
 
How accurate is my .45? My Wilson CQB is about 1-1.5" at 25yds off the bench. My offhand groups are probably 4-5" at the same range. My other 1911s are worse, but not by a large margin. I could consistantly hit your propane can at 10yds.

The biggest thing you could do to help yourself is get a trigger job, assuming you don't have one. If you're fighting a 6 lb. pull, this won't help you any.

Most of my shooting is combat type stuff, but I try and end with a 25yd slow fire group for score. This will get you back on the basics-sight picture and trigger control.
 
Way back when I was in the service (60s ), the GIs who were issued pistols complained bitterly about how inaccurate the service .45s were. (the fact that thier shooting skills were nonexistant didn't count)

The company armorer took half a dozen 19lls at random from the armory, and tested them all off a sandbag at 25 yard on the then-standard pistol target. All would stay in the black at that range- perhaps 5" groups. Not wonderful, but much better than most untrained shooters could hold.

The guys mostly shut up about the pistols. Mind, at that time, no one was doing anything but one-handed shooting, and the trigger pulls and sight picture on these "issue" weapons left a lot to be desired.
 
Maximus Otter, I almost cried when I read your post about them confiscating and destroying your handguns. :mad:

On the subject of handgun accuracy, I am marginal. I can hit a man size target at reasonable ranges, and can do a little better if resting. I have a bad habit of flinching. Maybe I should shoot my 22 and 38 special pistols more, and shoot less 41 magnums! :)
 
Otter, I'm with Danbo. That must have been a terrible thing to have to go through. It made me grind my teeth in frustration.:mad:

I have a stock Series 70 that is more accurate than I am, but the sights are small and not very easy to see against a dark target in poor light. Still, I can hold it pretty closeat 15 yards or so.

So you are a .41 fan too, Dan? That is my favorite handgun caliber. I love my Model 57 Smith with the six inch barrel. I'm lusting after one of the Taurus titanium .41's with the four inch barrel for something lighter and easier to carry.

Shooting the .22 and .38 will help on the flinching, but they don't make that same satisfying BOOOM that the big bores do. ;)

Still, my Smith K-38 Combat Masterpiece is one of the finest shooting guns I own, although with it's pearl grips and nickel finish, I'm a little self-conscious about packing it around my buddies. I call it my "Pimp Gun."

My wife bought it for me for Christmas one year.:)
 
I don't have much more to add to what has already been said except....
I would shoot the pistol from a rest (sandbag, etc) and see what the pistol is actually capable of. You may actually find that the groups are not too bad, and the POI is not as low as you thought. An inch or so low at 10 yds. is perfectly acceptable, as this will probably be almost spot on at 25 yds.
 
I have a Glock 21 and usually practice with it at around 7-10 yards. With basic 230 gr. ball ammo I'm usually good for continuous 3" groups with the occasional flyer. More practice with your gun will certainly yield positive results. I also found that once I bought a Buckmark (great little gun!) my trigger control improved still further.

Here's a question, do you have a flinch problem with the .45? If you can't remember seeing the muzzle flash and the slide cycle on each round, then your eyes are momentarily closed when the gun is discharging. I found that once I learned to keep my eyes open the through each shot, my accuracy improved a lot. Also, from what I've read and tried, releasing the shot while you're pretty much at full exhale in your breathing cycle seems to make for a steadier hand. Many people I observe at the range are holding their breath while squeezing off the shot. Try it both ways, but I generally find that even holding your breath a little causes a bit more wavering of the hand.

jmx
 
Jmxcpter,

Yes, I still close my eyes often when shooting a .45 ACP; I think this is because I had improper instruction.

I shot revolvers for years before my first automatic. And not just any revolvers, but those suited to topple rams at great distances in metallic silhuette shooting. Even my firearm was improper, it was a 4-inch, nickel plated SW 29 loaded with heavy caast bullets overe about +/-25 grains of H-110 or 296.

I corrected this (at least I lessened it) by warming up with a Ruger 22/45 when I first go out to practice. For a while, I had to consciously strain to keep both eyes open, or at least my dominant eye.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with varmint scopes. The heavy rifles and the light .224 bullets usually let me watch the impact.
 
I can hit a quarter sized dot at 25 yards with my USP Tactical.
Of course the dot is not on the run or shooting back:D
 
Originally posted by Danbo
Maximus Otter, I almost cried when I read your post about them confiscating and destroying your handguns. :mad:
Click to expand...

I've often said that I didn't think that confiscating handguns affected a lot of people (Otter is one of them).

My worst objection?

It was crass, purposeless, knee-jerk reactions.

Typical of anti-libertarian, authoritarian, big government action.

Come and visit Britain - where only the bad guys own guns.

[I still don't think I'm any markedly greater risk of harm in my home because I *can't* have a gun than when I didn't have a gun; and even when handguns were legal here, using them to shoot bad guys would have been frowned upon - Otter can comment on the legalities, if he can bring himself to]
 
I would suggest experimenting from a bunker of some sort.

Another such speculation: Take a fully-pressurized oxygen tank, the kind they use in hospitals. (or compressed air, or helium...)

Set it up on a ramp, and wrap detcord around the "neck" part of the tank.

Should take off like a rocket when the det cord removes the top....

Attention homeland-defense types; SPECULATION ONLY!
 
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