How Are Basic LEs Finished Under The Handle?

jazub

jazub

Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,622
Looking over B10 pics got me wondering how the Basic LEs are finished under the handle. Living on the coast has me trippin' on corrosion vulnerabilities.

In this borrowed picture of a B11 mod, it appears that the coating was deemed beneficial to keep:

bussebasic11-3.jpg

photo credit: Norcalblacktail


What say ye, Busse Wizards? The B10 is for scuba?
 
I cant answer that question,but I will say
you wont find me swimming where
I need to carry a Basic-10 :D





jaws.gif
 
Just spoke with Amy (which is always a pleasure) and she let me know that the Basic LEs are satin under the handle and there is no protective coating; contacting Garth to discuss possible custom work would be the way to go if I would like that insurance against rust under the handles.

Frankly, kind of bummed. Please, somebody chime in here and assure me that these handles will not turn into rust gloves over time. :o
 
I lived a .25 mile from the cali coast (lots of fog all year round) and small corrosion spots appeared on all my non coated blades, guns, etc...Not just busse. So i never buy satin anymore for that reason. All metal rusts near the coast. Titanium is your only option or that h-1 steel might be ok. Since the handles are not water sealed, i would assume you will get corrosion...maybe ask them to coat it then at least you have some protection...its inevitable though man..
 
Not to be a smarty pants or anything but,

This rust thing comes up every so often.

I have a few questions;

1. is rust toxic ?
I seam to remember a article in tactical knives about 10 years ago Jeff Randall wrote about the fact that almost all the cooking/cleaning knives in the South American Jungle have rust on them. Will rust make you sick in the small amount that may flake off?

2.will it hurt anything other than looks or re-sale value ?

3.what do you give up specifically when you go to a rust free or stainless steel ?
(this I would like to have some answers like toughness, and re-sharpen-ability )

4. Can this rust under the rubber handle be somewhat prevented with maintenance ?

Thing to ponder and maybe the answers will help out ?
 
Cappy, that is not the assurance I was looking for, bro :eek: ;)

Mr. Brown, thank you for your response. I have not tried eating rusty INFI as of yet, so I do not know about its toxicity -but I do know that my B11 has been quite detrimental to the health of many logs and branches! :thumbup: Seriously, though, you hit the nail on the head perfectly with your 4th point: no, rust under a rubber handle can not be prevented with maintenance because it can not be reached.

I don't doubt that these knives will be amazing (just like all of my other Busse knives) but when given the choice between "rust" and "no rust", I unapologetically choose "no rust".


***I received an email response from Garth saying that a "rust protector" is put beneath the handles. Whether that is mineral oil or glue or whatever, he did not say.
 
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A Busse knife is made to be used.
If you take normal care of your knife,wipe it down after
a splash in the pool,edge stropped etc,maybe a little oil on the blade,
Im sure you will have no problems.
Remember,its a Busse and the warranty will fix you right back
up if there is a problem.
 
1. is rust toxic ?
Click to expand...
Not in small amounts. Just think of it as part of your RDA of iron to help keep your hemoglobin count up.

2.will it hurt anything other than looks or re-sale value?
Click to expand...
It can in a couple ways that I know of:
(1) If it pits the knife and food particles accumulate in the pits, bacteria can grow in there. As has been mentioned, maintenance like cleaning, drying, and oiling can help prevent this even in really gnarly pitted knives.
(2) If the very extreme cutting edge gets corroded enough, the eroding away at the junction of the bevel planes will affect the cutting/slicing ability of the edge. In the extreme, consider the eroded blades of non-stainless knives that have lain in moist dirt for extended periods of time. At the limit, these blades simple rust completely away.

3.what do you give up specifically when you go to a rust free or stainless steel? (this I would like to have some answers like toughness, and re-sharpen-ability )
Click to expand...
Generally, the stainless steels are more brittle than the simple high-carbon steels. This makes these stainless steels poorer choices for choppers.

Two points to remember about stainless steels:
1. The name is "Stain Less" not "Stain Free". Given the proper environment they too will eventually stain and/or rust, however at a much slower rate than the simple high-carbon steels.
2. In the stainless steels, as in all steels, HEAT TREATING IS KING!!!! Mess up the heat treat and even the finest exotic steel becomes marginalized. This is the strength of the Wauseon shop -- refining the heat treat to get a high degree of toughness at reasonably high hardness in all their steels. Consider the infamous D2 steel Deputy Sheriff smash test done a few years ago by the Swamp. As shown at the link below, that's amazing toughness in a semi-stainless steel that should have shattered under the abuse, but stood up to the abuse quite well.
http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=006743

4. Can this rust under the rubber handle be somewhat prevented with maintenance?
Click to expand...
Yes, somewhat but not completely. If this is a deal-killer for someone, I would advocate some testing of sealing the handle/metal junctions, including the lanyard tube area, with something like the ultra low viscosity cyanoacrylate adhesives (super-thin super glue) that are pretty easily found in the $5 per fluid ounce range.
 
I don't think you need to worry gents. Many Swamp Rat/Scrap Yard knives were satin finished and obviously featured Res-C handles, and I have yet to have a problem with one. Just be sure to take a q-tip and apply some mineral oil in between the tang and Res-C (where the handle meets the bare metal). That is the only place moisture can penetrate the Res-C and cause decarb/rust. I swear by mineral oil. Its cheap, safe, and edible! Don't put too much on your blade though, as it is a laxative :eek::p
 
If rust and other contaminates could develop behind Res-c with satin blades, would it not do the same on other satin or LEs with G-10 or Micarta?
 
It most certainly could under the right, or should I say wrong, conditions. I've seen pictures of Busse's that had rust specs on the tang when the scales were removed. Not that any other makers knife wouldn't do the same thing. Afterall, it's steel we are talking about.....and steel can rust.
 
I would not get too worked up about it. I would be willing to bet you money that decades of moisture under the handles would not be enough to affect the functionality of the knife.

High carbon swords are fine with hundreds of years with out taking the handles off. Samurai sword spend hundreds of years with rust on the tangs (in face, cleaning the rust off the tangs is a major no no).

Infi is not a rust agressive steel. It will discolor, and get light rust with neglect, but in my experience, the satin is pretty resistive.

I have left a wet satin GW in the sheath all day after going in the pool. I have purposely swum with both satin, and stripped infi just to see what effect. The only time I have seen any rust on naked stain is after a full 2 day canoe trip. I went swimming with the BAD in the morning, and purposely did not even take it out of the sheath until I got home that night. I was excited to see a small bit of rust (right where the logo was etched). Unfortunately, I touched it with my thumb before I could get a picture and it was gone! No discoloration or pitting.


Now, swampland, and near the ocean, are much more rust aggressive areas than where I live. If you take care of the knife you will be fine. If it gets dunked in the brine, rinse it off, and pat it dry it should be just fine!

I admit, to being a bit of a rascal when it comes to steel. I like a patina, and have seen old infi with a bit of patina (light to darker grey). I sure like the look! I have been storing my my Satin infi in leather for over a year to see if it will happen. Not much going on yet!
 
Thanks for the response, Bigfattyt :thumbup:

I like your reasoning and appreciate your relating firsthand experience. My concerns regarding rust and prevention have increased markedly in the last 3 months since moving oceanside. I have a small but treasured collection of GEC traditional pocket knives, 19 of 20 which are 1095 high carbon steel. I noticed quickly that the few of them that I rotate spot very quickly when not paid regular attention. Sure we're all mortal and nothing lasts forever, etc -and, likewise, metal will rust in time -but a few days on a dresser?? :eek:

This is not to say that I mistake 1095 for Infi but rather that the reality of the vulnerability of steel has smacked me in the face recently; I'm probably a little too jumpy about it at the moment.

Moral of the story: Move to high desert -or just go with it :D:thumbup:
 
Bigfattyt said:
I like a patina, and have seen old infi with a bit of patina (light to darker grey). I sure like the look!
Click to expand...
Might want to check out the Maintenance & Embellishment forum for patina ideas. The gang down there sound like your kind of people.

Here is my recipe (stolen from somewhere online) for a solid dark'ish grey patina:

1) Thoroughly degrease and clean the knife. I like mineral spirits or Goof-Off as a first course, then soapy dishwater to get the MS or GO off of the steel.
2) Boil enough white vinegar to cover the knife. Cheap stuff from the grocery store is fine.
3) Pour hot vinegar over the knife to cover. For relatively short knives, I like to stand the knife up (tip down) in a tall heavy glass beer mug, then pour in enough vinegar to cover the parts I want to patina.
4) Let knife stand in vinegar for 10 minutes.
5) Remove knife from vinegar and rinse clean.
6) Repeat cover-soak-remove-rinse cycle if you don't like the effect. However, I've found that once the first coating of patina is established, added more cycles doesn't change the effect much, if at all. The patina that is already on the steel keeps further interaction from happening very easily.
7) Sit back with a cool one and admire your gun-metal grey knife blade.

HTH.
 
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