How can I carry my Silent soldier in California?

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Metal Made Fox

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Hi guys. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe California law states that any fixed blade (as long as it's not double edged) can be carried legally ONLY IF NOT CONCEALED.

I want to start carrying my Brous Silent Soldier. However I would not feel comfortable carrying it exposed. First of all I would feel that I would be getting strange looks from people, and secondly I like to keep my shirt untucked. I want to clip it to the front of my belt (right next to the buckle) as I have found that this is the most unobtrusive and comfortable carry position for me. I sometimes forget it's ever there!

And I like the fact that it hides nicely and doesn't profile. No one needs to know I am carrying a knife. Not that I intend on doing anything bad with it but I just don't feel comfortable openly carrying a fixed blade.

What are my options here you guys? Do the police (Specifically around Southern California) not take kindly to conceal carry of fixed blades?
 
You are right its illegal.
If I would ever have my shirt untucked over a fixed knife by mistake and realize it while seeing the police I would instantly tuck it in again before they see me. I never had a cop check me but wish they would check more. Dogs without leashes, potheads on playgrounds all get away without any issues. You might too but in case you don't there could be severe consequences :(

Now either get a folder or make the Soldier a folder. It has a hole in the back. Just attach something that can fold. Then in court the judge has to define what exactly a folder is. Does the whole blade have to disappear in the handle? Half of it or is it enough if the folding part is only an extension of an otherwise fixed handle?
 
Carrying a fixed-blade concealed is indeed illegal under California state law (CA penal code 21310). The penal code says that you face a year imprisonment for such a violation. If an article of clothing covers an openly-carried fixed-blade for even a brief moment, that can be considered "concealed" under the law.

I've been carrying fixed-blades openly here in San Diego every day for several years, and I've seen many other people doing the same. My current fixed-blade is (and has been for quite awhile) a Wilson Tactical model 25. I've never had any problems from anyone, including the several cops who have seen me carrying it. I don't know if I'm getting strange looks from people because I generally ignore other people and couldn't care less what they think of a knife on my belt.

Also, there is absolutely nothing illegal about openly carrying a double-edged fixed-blade, or the concealed-carry of a double-edged folder, under California state law. There are no CA state laws pertaining specifically to double-edged knives.
 
Would it be illegal if I clipped it to my belt but tucked part of my shirt behind the sheath so that it would be exposed without having to tuck all of my shirt in? Kind of like how some people like to tuck part of their shirt behind their flashy belt buckles so people can see them?
 
Sounds fine but I'm no lawyer. Also if the sheath and handle of your knife have the same color like your cloths ( blue jeans and black shirt for example) it's very well camouflaged but not concealed. Kind of a lot of effort and still no guarantee from me since I'm no lawyer and don't even know anybody of that profession.
 
Metal Made Fox said:
Would it be illegal if I clipped it to my belt but tucked part of my shirt behind the sheath so that it would be exposed without having to tuck all of my shirt in? Kind of like how some people like to tuck part of their shirt behind their flashy belt buckles so people can see them?
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I will answer your question this way- I used to carry my fixed-blade in a back-pocket sheath with only the handle visible. Although my lawyer told me that this was generally alright, he advised me against carrying in such a matter for the following reasons-1. There was too much risk that my jacket might accidentally cover the handle, even momentarily, and that would qualify as "concealed carry". 2. Carrying in such a manner, it would be very easy for a dishonest LEO to lie and say that the knife was being covered by my jacket when it wasn't. For those reasons (and a few others) I have since carried my fixed-blade in a sheath hanging from my belt. Carried in this manner, the knife hangs much lower than my jacket, making it impossible for the knife to be covered by my jacket, and making it very difficult for any LEO to lie and say that it was.

As long as your knife is clearly visible, and can be clearly recognized as a knife, then you are carrying it in a legal manner. But my advice is this- Not only do you need to be sure that you are carrying your knife in a clearly visible manner, but you also must take great care that you don't experience some sort of "wardrobe malfunction" that causes your knife to become concealed.
 
killgar said:
I will answer your question this way- I used to carry my fixed-blade in a back-pocket sheath with only the handle visible. Although my lawyer told me that this was generally alright, he advised me against carrying in such a matter for the following reasons-1. There was too much risk that my jacket might accidentally cover the handle, even momentarily, and that would qualify as "concealed carry". 2. Carrying in such a manner, it would be very easy for a dishonest LEO to lie and say that the knife was being covered by my jacket when it wasn't. For those reasons (and a few others) I have since carried my fixed-blade in a sheath hanging from my belt. Carried in this manner, the knife hangs much lower than my jacket, making it impossible for the knife to be covered by my jacket, and making it very difficult for any LEO to lie and say that it was.

As long as your knife is clearly visible, and can be clearly recognized as a knife, then you are carrying it in a legal manner. But my advice is this- Not only do you need to be sure that you are carrying your knife in a clearly visible manner, but you also must take great care that you don't experience some sort of "wardrobe malfunction" that causes your knife to become concealed.
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Makes complete sense. Thank you.
Just one thing isn't clear to me. How can a knife in a sheath be clearly recognized as a knife?
Are wood land camo scabbards and handles allowed on my woodland camo pants? They wouldn't be very recognizable.
If they are ok then jeans camo on my more civilian jeans should be fine as we'll?
 
I rarely wear jackets so as long as my shirt wouldn't come untucked from behind the sheath I think I should be alright.

Another question is: how would an officer react to seeing the Silent Soldier? We all know that the SS is quite a unique knife design which some people may see as a bit "aggressive" looking. Especially that my SS Ranger is the black coated version.

I read somewhere that punch daggers (like the Cold Steel Safe maker) are illegal in California. Do you guys think that a cop trying to give me a hard time would want to say that my SS is considered as a punch dagger because you can hold it in a punch grip between the ring and index finger?

Thank you for the replies, you guys. :)
 
You can carry your fixed anyway you like. BUT all an officer has to say is 'I couldn't see it'.

Some parts of Ca won't even let you carry fixed OPENLY. All counties are different.

I stay safe and carry a folder.
 
HwangJino said:
You can carry your fixed anyway you like. BUT all an officer has to say is 'I couldn't see it'.
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So then I need always two fixed knives. On in front and one in the back just in case the cop came from one direction and didn't see the knife on the opposite side?
Sounds not right, there has to be a better definition than what one officer could or couldn't see from wherever he was approaching?
 
Let me try to address a few things-

1. An openly carried fixed-blade does not have to be visible from every angle in order to be legal. Such a thing is both physically impossible and unreasonable, and the criminal statutes have to be reasonable and follow the laws of physics. As it was explained to me, the basic principle regarding whether or not a knife is concealed is- Is it reasonable to believe that you intended to hide the knife from view. As is often the case in criminal law, your INTENT counts for a lot. Of course, if your knife becomes accidentally covered by clothing, it may be reasonable for others (cops, prosecutors, jurors) to believe that you were intentionally trying to hide the knife from view, and you could possibly be arrested, charged, and convicted based on their beliefs. Because after all, only you know that it was an accident, no one can read your mind, and it is certainly reasonable to believe that a person might try to conceal a knife under their clothing.

Here's an example of a situation where ones knife is NOT visible, but NOT considered to be "concealed" under the law- Your carrying something out in public from one place to another. Maybe a box, or a mattress, or a blanket, maybe you're moving or you just bought something at a store and you're carrying it to your car. And while you are carrying the item it momentarily prevents your knife from being visible. The reason this is NOT considered to be a violation of the law is because it is not reasonable to believe that you were carrying that item for the specific purpose of hiding your knife. Like I said, INTENT, and the reasonable perception of your INTENT, counts for a lot in criminal law.

2. California penal code 20200 specifically says that straight knives worn openly in sheaths hanging from the waist are NOT considered concealed.

3. It doesn't matter what color or pattern the knife or sheath has. There is no obligation under the law that requires you to make your knife stand out against what you are wearing. Again, as long as the knife isn't covered in such a way that makes it not openly visible, then it isn't considered "concealed" under the law.

4. It's impossible to predict with any accuracy how any individual LEO will perceive any particular knife. LEO's are people, and each one is an individual with their own point of view.

5. There is nothing illegal about "punch daggers" under California state law. There is no mention of "punch daggers", or "palm knives" or "push knives", etc, etc, anywhere in CA state law.

It should also be mentioned that knives and swords that don't reasonably look like knives and swords are considered to be "concealed" under the law. A few examples are- cane swords, umbrella swords, knives disguised as pens, lipsticks, hair brushes, belt buckles, etc, etc.

And just to add, although I am certainly not a cop, I just looked at the Brous Silent Soldier fixed-blades online, and to me they look like small utility knives.
 
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I would love to carry my SS V2 gen 2 on my jeans waist, on the front, a little to the left, so i can deploy it comfortably, the only problem i have is that the sheath it came with has really no retention, when i just got it, i shook it 3 times and it fell off (a little test i do on the bed or couch), now it comes off in the first shake.

my version came with the injection mold plastic, i know newer versions with the kydex sheath dont have this problem.

Made a little video that shows how i would like to carry it, but the primary objective of it is to show a way i found to comfortably (and the most secure i know) change grips one handed, need to practice this to get more speed, but for a knife this size and without much practice i think its already practical (just got the knife a couple of weeks ago, and havent had time to practice it after i figured out this way of grip changing).

just wanted to share it, and sorry about the coarse english pronunciation and errors, its been a while since i last spoke it.

here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtGasz5uJvM

if anyone knows how i can get just the kydex sheath for this version/generation of the knife please let me know, i would really like to carry it on my neck or on the waist, and both those are impossible without the knife falling out of the injection mold plastic sheath.
 
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