How common is blade play??? (Methods To Alleviate)

xtonesterx

xtonesterx

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May 26, 2009
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how common is blade play in production slip joints? i just got a new Queen canoe in amber stag and the main blade has some side to side blade play. the smaller pen knife has none. at first glance at the back spring and liners there seems to be no gaps. when i put it up against light you can see some very minor gaps on the main blades side.

i checked the rest of my slippies which are only a few and they all seem to have some minor side to side blade play. the only one that does not is my GEC barlow.

so i was wondering is this a common thing in production slip joints?
 
In production knives, very common. And to much greater or lesser degrees, depending on individual perspective. Some might view a couple hairs' width of movement as excessive play, while others wouldn't worry unless the blade was literally RATTLING to & fro. And the gaps seen between springs and liners, or between liners & scales, are VERY common, the more you look for them (and more noticeable, the brighter the back-lighting is). Knives that truly don't have any play or gaps at all are likely to be VERY expensive (and even that's not a guarantee). If it's made from multiple parts that fold/pivot, it's bound to turn up, sooner or later.
 
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David pretty much summed it up. It is not uncommon to find gaps or a little play from side to side. Ideally there should be none, but a small amount doesn't affect the use of the knife. How much is acceptable depends on each individual. I personally wouldn't care on a production knife as long as it wasn't noticeable in use. There are other people who seem to complain about it on almost every knife they buy. From my limited experience and from what I've read here, it seems to be much less common with GEC. They generally have the best quality fit and finish of modern production traditional knives. That's not to say you can't get a good knife from other makers or a flawed one from GEC, just that GEC's quality is more consistent.
 
It bugs me. I wish it didn't. Part of the reason I like older knives is that it seems to be less of an issue. Production knives just used to be better.
 
Definitely a common issue, but not one that I will allow to bother me. My knives are users, tools that once used may eventually show some signs of wear such as minor blade play or gaps between the liners and backsprings. There are no guarantees, so what is the difference if there is very slight blade play when you get it or it happens 5 years down the road? Would you be as bothered by a user with such imperfections after you had a 5-year history with it?
 
Side play bothers me. I have seen it on Queen (teardrop) and a GEC lockback. In each case, I sent the knife
back to the manufacturer and they fixed it.
I had to wait to get the knives back, but they came back without any play and tight lockup for the GEC.
I really don't care for loose blades, and they should not start out that way. Fortunately, companies like Queen and GEC will
back their products.
 
Personally I don't keep new knives with blade play. I sell them or get them replaced or repaired. Blade play bothers the heck out of me. I figure if I have play in a new knife it's likely to be sloppy and flopping all over the place in a few years.

If it bothers you now it will probably always bother you. That detracts from your joy in having and using a new knife. If it's possible to get it replaced or repaired, I'd do it.
 
I despise blade play. From my experience of the big makers the Queens are more likely to have blade play and that's counting knives made today to going back 35 years. Also, I'll say that GECs typically have zero blade play and very few gaps, with the exception of their 72 lock back model. I returned for credit two model 72s for blade play. Had I known the factory could make them rock solid (as I've now been hearing from multiple sources) I'd have kept them as they're super nice.
 
Well, there is blade play, and then there is blade play, and of course a fixed blade will give you a good reference of "zero" blade play.

I think blade play is pretty much universal in slipjoint knives since with enough pressure I can get at least a hint of side to side play in every slipjoint knife I ever tried, so I would say we are talking a matter of degree here and everyone's gauge will be different. I have thankfully only had one instance where I felt the play was excessive enough to return to the manufacturer for adjustment. That was a GEC Cigar Stockman where the main blade would rattle if you shook the knife with the blade open. It came back "perfect" so I was happy.

If your task requires that you use a knife in such a fashion that typical slipjoint blade play is a concern, you probably need a fixed blade, or at least a locking blade.
 
We're talking about production knives here and Stu gave a pretty darn good summary about blade play and individual perceptions of it.

It's a simple fix to correct the problem for probably 99.9% of knives with blade play. Wrap the bolster that the offending blade's pivot point is in in a piece of leather or soft cloth and give it a very slight squeeze in a vice or a very light tap with a hammer and you can correct the problem with ease. I've done that with several knives over the years with no ill effects to the knives.
 
I have had really good luck with Henckels, Boker and GEC in regards to blade play. ZERO for the most part and in a very few examples just slight that you really have to try to show.
 
To all the "zero play" fanatics, your zero and my zero are not the same thing. If it has moving parts, there must be some clearance between those parts or they will no longer be moving, they will be friction fitted fixed parts. I have worked on equipment where parts were assembled by heating one to 100°F higher than the other and slipping it into place. No force required, and once it cooled down to the same temperature, it couldn't be moved with anything short of a 12 pound sledgehammer. That is zero clearance and zero play. I expect anything that comes off an assembly line to have some play in the moving parts. Even a hand-fitted custom will have some play, if your instruments for measuring it are accurate enough. It may be because I've made things with moving parts, but I'm fairly tolerant of those clearances that are needed to make things work. If nothing else, they provide a path for lubricant to enter. No clearance = no lube = accelerated wear for moving steel parts.
 
yablanowitz said:
To all the "zero play" fanatics, your zero and my zero are not the same thing. If it has moving parts, there must be some clearance between those parts or they will no longer be moving, they will be friction fitted fixed parts. I have worked on equipment where parts were assembled by heating one to 100°F higher than the other and slipping it into place. No force required, and once it cooled down to the same temperature, it couldn't be moved with anything short of a 12 pound sledgehammer. That is zero clearance and zero play. I expect anything that comes off an assembly line to have some play in the moving parts. Even a hand-fitted custom will have some play, if your instruments for measuring it are accurate enough. It may be because I've made things with moving parts, but I'm fairly tolerant of those clearances that are needed to make things work. If nothing else, they provide a path for lubricant to enter. No clearance = no lube = accelerated wear for moving steel parts.
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I don't think anyone is trying to say their folder will not open without a sledge hammer. There is to me noticeable blade play when you can wiggle the blade side to side and then there is ZERO blade play when there is no discernible play in a real life hold it in your hand and check type situation. That is my definition of zero blade play in a folder, so my previous statement is more clear.
 
Well,

I don´t think, that bladeplay is a very very bad thing. But if a knife, which just arrived, has some bladeplay this is a nogo. To me, this seems be a low-quality-subject. For sure, knives are tools, but I don´t buy a chainsaw where the sword (of the saw, of course ;) ) doesn´t keep it in the place, when it wobbles or something like this.
That´s what I have to tell to this.
By using tools, then can get bad during using. But when that tool is new, this should work (for a time).

Kind regards
Andi
 
Jack,

I also wanted to add, I realize you are a good guy and knowledgeable. I think this is a good discussion. I understand what you are saying with mashed together tolerances and no room for lubricant. But, I do not agree that loose tolerances is saving any wear and tear on a knife. It leaves room for sand and dirt to get in and prematurely wear the pivot mechanisms. I am speaking of preferring tolerances that are so controlled through machining that when assembled there is not room for dirt or sand or perceivable real life play. I have drawers full of production knives that do not have blade play. They are so tight that you can throw them into sand and dirt and it will not get into the pivot. Tight tolerances that are properly lubricated is to me a far superior alternative to sloppy construction. That is how I feel about blade play.

I want my knife with the tightest tolerances and the best design to allow for as minimal play as possible. Even super tight tolerances can be lubricated.

I just wanted to give you my take on it.

Kevin
 
Modoc ED said:
We're talking about production knives here and Stu gave a pretty darn good summary about blade play and individual perceptions of it.

It's a simple fix to correct the problem for probably 99.9% of knives with blade play. Wrap the bolster that the offending blade's pivot point is in in a piece of leather or soft cloth and give it a very slight squeeze in a vice or a very light tap with a hammer and you can correct the problem with ease. I've done that with several knives over the years with no ill effects to the knives.
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this really works? cause im about to give it a try on my Queen canoe.
 
xtonesterx said:
this really works? cause im about to give it a try on my Queen canoe.
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When play was really bad, I have used a vise on some knives with good success. Be carefull about wrapping them well to avoid marring. "Aim" well. Squeeze slow and easy until you achieve the desired results. Haven't tried the hammer method, might be better?
 
Modoc ED said:
We're talking about production knives here and Stu gave a pretty darn good summary about blade play and individual perceptions of it.

It's a simple fix to correct the problem for probably 99.9% of knives with blade play. Wrap the bolster that the offending blade's pivot point is in in a piece of leather or soft cloth and give it a very slight squeeze in a vice or a very light tap with a hammer and you can correct the problem with ease. I've done that with several knives over the years with no ill effects to the knives.
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I've also had success with this method by tapping the bolsters wrapped in cloth with a plastic headed hammer.
 
JohnnyR said:
I've also had success with this method by tapping the bolsters wrapped in cloth with a plastic headed hammer.
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i gave this a try, it worked some what. there is still some very minimal side to side but i can live with it now. i might give the vice a try too.
 
I use very liquid super glue: I open half of the blade and place few drop spuerglue. Open blade and wait few mins. Then I open and close blade few times and clear excessive gunk. Result is that most blade play is gone. Knives I've "fixed" that way have never developed blade play again so far.

- Jani
 
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