How do custom knives keep an edge?

D

DCM

Joined
Aug 28, 2006
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Just read the latest Blade article on Knives on Alaska.. They are employing an impressive amount of machinery, for quality control and to improve knife performance.. I don't have the article in front of me to list the machines. One is CATRA, and a knife edge tester, a rockwell tester.. i don't remember the others. But, these will surely lead to better knives being made.

My question, will future Production knives (having more metal science behind them and research money) lead to a future where production knives outperform many/most custom knives?

And, just a purely hypothetical question.. how would industry knives such as Cold Steel, Busse, Reeve, Emerson.. perform if they were entered into a ABS cutting competion?
David
 
I don't ever think that a production knife will EVER out preform a Custom knife. (Chris Reeve being the exception.) Why? Becuase they are mass produced. Customs are made one at a time.
 
There are plenty of scenarios where the capital requirements to make a knife could increase to the point where it isn't possible for the individual maker to compete.

For example if ceramics reach the point where they are outperforming steel. Or if blade edges and/or steels are made using methods similar to those used to manufacture computer chips. There's lots and lots of work being done on molecular level assembly that could redefine how cutting edges are made that would heavily favor large-scale producers.

These changes would probably show up first in the scalpel and safety razor businesses and then migrate fairly quickly to the highest volume knife producers.
 
I don't think volume manufacturers will ever make knives that will out perform customs or handmades simply because most people apart from knife nuts on this board care very little about how knives perform as long as its cheap and can cut stuff. So there is no incentive for volume maker to make knives that can outcut customs because very few people will pay even a little more for the extra performance.
 
TheKnifeCollector said:
I don't ever think that a production knife will EVER out preform a Custom knife. (Chris Reeve being the exception.) Why? Becuase they are mass produced. Customs are made one at a time.
Click to expand...

Oh I don't know about that. There are some awfully good production knives, and some awfully bad custom knives and even more that are just mediocre. Not all customs are top of the line stuff let's remember.
 
What is lacking in the best of the production knife market? .. i would imagine any void would soon be met w/ incentives for it to be manufactured. Unless, it would incur too much cost. The main focus these days seems to be the unique styling, along w/ some companies to push new, super steels..

Are ABS smith knives made to withstand certain tolerances that are not repeatable in the majority of production knives? .. what are they, and what advantages do they offer?
David
 
Just because an object is handmade does not necessarily make it superior to an item that is machine-produced...there are many examples of things that are 'handmade' that cannot approach the degree of exactness that can be achieved with machines. Perhaps medical scalpels and other such equipment can be an example of this.

However, that doesn't detract from the allure of beautiful handmade items executed by superbly skillful artisans! :)

That being said, certainly we are aware that a percentage of handmade items (knives included) are made by individuals whose talent and skill, even with the best intentions, might not be up to the level required to produce a superior product...

-Michael
 
In another thread, I made the suggestion that a seller (or maker) of a custom could possibly realize a higher price if substantial information concerning potential performance accompanied the obligatory picture and description. The answers indicated that very few custom buyers cared for detailed construction information, or that most buyers of a "famous" customs needed no such verification of superior performance potential. The inference was that a custom would "automatically" be a superior cutting instrument. When I pay for "custom" I look for evidence of superior workmanship AND superior performance potential even if I don't intend to use the knife.
I'm still perplexed! I expect the same from custom flyrods, and custom anything.
A custom pickup with an anemic engine isn't much fun either. I may never use the full 500hp, but I expect it to be there if it's supposed to be part of the package. I'll never know if it's there until I "use" it UNLESS the builder gives me enough information to judge for myself. Many production knife makers are not much different, expecting buyers to make purchase judgements based on sketchy and often pointless descriptions. There are refreshing exceptions, but still they are exceptions. "Razor sharp" tells me nothing!
Perhaps, I'm only shouting in the wilderness.
 
DCM said:
What is lacking in the best of the production knife market? .. i would imagine any void would soon be met w/ incentives for it to be manufactured. Unless, it would incur too much cost. The main focus these days seems to be the unique styling, along w/ some companies to push new, super steels..

Are ABS smith knives made to withstand certain tolerances that are not repeatable in the majority of production knives? .. what are they, and what advantages do they offer?
David
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1. Edge geometry for one thing. Custom knives are geared towards an educated clientele that will GENERALLY use the right knife for the right work.

2. Custom knives made by custom makers GENERALLY optmize steel, edge geometry and heat treat to make the best knife possible. Production knives make use of materials to make the best knife at the best price for the majority of intended purchasers.

It is primarily the difference between a sniper and a shotgun door kicker, if the analogy makes any sense.

Production knives are not necessarily intended to be sold to knife people, Wal-Mart knives in specific.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
straitshot said:
The inference was that a custom would "automatically" be a superior cutting instrument.

Perhaps, I'm only shouting in the wilderness.
Click to expand...

That is not what I got from the comments you received. What I do think that people were saying is that they didn't see a necessity for a lot of information as long as the knives performed well.

Pretty well all the knifemakers I have dealt with have told me what they do to heat treat a knife, and what they do to test a knife. However, they don't usually send me any documentation unless I request it. Every time I have requested it, I got it.

Custom knives are not always going to be better than production knives. In fact, there are quite a few production knives that are better than a heck of a lot of the customs out there. To those that look only at performance (nothing wrong with that), it's hard to beat the high end production knives. If I was only interested in performance and build quality, I probably would never have gotten into custom knives. Custom makers offer me the chance to get a knife the way I want it. Manufacturers don't offer the variety and choices of materials that I am interested in. Most production knives are available with only one choice of blade steel, and a very limited number of handle material choices. To me that's boring.
 
I test every blade before it leaves the shop. A factory can't do that, I chop in a knot or a piece of hard lighter pine to test my edges. Rockwell testing can tell you how hard it is but not if the edge geometry is correct.
Reggie
 
Reggie Barker said:
I test every blade before it leaves the shop. A factory can't do that, I chop in a knot or a piece of hard lighter pine to test my edges. Rockwell testing can tell you how hard it is but not if the edge geometry is correct.
Reggie
Click to expand...

Amen Brother...... A "Pretty Knife" that Rockwells out to between 58-60 don't really mean squat. As a fairly "newbie", I am discovering that even though the heat-treat is "dead-nutz", if the edge geometry ain't right, you just have a poorly designed tire tool.

My 2-cents worth.

Robert
 
I'll agree with Reggie and Robert.

Edge geometry is often given second place when it should have at least as much consideration as steel selection and heat treat. A maker that knows his edge geometry can, in my opinion, make a knife from a lesser steel outperform one made from a superior steel but poor edge geometry. This is part of why some think custom knives hold an edge better.

Good discussion. :thumbup: Lin
 
I gotta say that for folders, a top production folder can outperform many customs, including in the fit and finish area. think William Henry.

Reggie's post is really nice to see. I like makers who test each blade they make, then resharpen them again after testing. Nothing disappoints more than a poorly sharpened / finished edge in a new knife.
 
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