How do I get Razor Sharp Blades?

[Woodrow F Call]

Truth is, I'm not very good at sharpening, but I'm wanting to correct this. I want to sharpen my Case (CV and Tru-Sharp), Leatherman, GEC (1095) knives to razor sharp or real close. I have the following tools and figure on doing a 15 degree (30 degree total) edge.

Smith's Tri-Hone with the following stones:
Coarse Stone (no idea on the grit)
Medium Arkansas Stone (600 grit)
Fine Arkansas Stone (1000 grit)

I also have a strop with the green compound.


I figure that's not enough (am I wrong?). I'm thinking getting some glass, some 1500 grit and 2000 grit automotive sand paper to use before the strop and maybe make a strop with the black compound.

I also have a 3X6X9X loupe and a 32X powered microscope to look at what I'm doing.



I have a couple of questions:

1. How sharp can you get with the fine (1000 grit) stone? Just for reference. I understand that if nothing else going finer will give you a longer lasting blade.

2. Should I go higher than 2000 grit then a green strop? I'm just wanting a good sharp working blade. These aren't collectors items, I just want easy to cut without spending 24 hours on each blade. I don't plan on shaving, but I'd like for it to cut the hairs.

3. Do I really need the black compound for stropping?



I'd appreciate any input to obtain my goals.

 

[Curtis_Lowe]

I think the smith's tri hone or even just a Norton India would be just fine if you already have a strop and compound. That's really all you need to get a shaving sharp edge. I personally haven't found that a more polished edge lasts longer but I suppose it's a bit subjective.

If you just want a sharp shaving edge, you shouldn't need to go higher than the fine Arkansas. Arkansas stones are natural stones and polish as they cut. You can get a very sharp edge off of Arkansas stones

No, you don't need black compound.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Thanks for the input!

 

[me2]

You can shave your arm off the coarse stone, though it will be a little rough. By the fine Arkansas, it should be smooth. I've started lowering many of my knives to 15°\side and they seem to hold up fine. You are well equiped, but there is nothing wrong with pushing the limit.

 

[richard j]

would you be open to another method of sharpening? here is a vid of a knife i made cutting free hanging newspaper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iDE2EBzBw

 

[Humppa]

Being honest, I have nearly the same stones like you, including the strop.

With an Arkansas Stone you can get a pretty sharp edge, close the razor sharp. But the razor blade you just get with a simple leather strop. I built two strops by my own. I run one with compound and the other one without. Even with the same green compound.

Following stones I use frequently:

Coarse green stone (scythe sharping): 80 - 120 grit
Brown Indiga water stone: 320 grit
White Arkansas Oilstone: 1000 grit
and the leather strop.

Great results I made with the Indiga and the Arkansas. The green stone I only use when blade breakout etc - to much removement of steel.

If you sharpen freehand you should take care to get the correct angle. Use the stone in each grit just as long as the stone "bites" (You´ll know it, when you feel it). Then change the stone until I come to the leather strop... Then I (usually) have a razor sharp blade...

 

[sintro]

That's plenty to get hair popping sharp. I used to get smooth hair popping with just the coarse, then medium with no stropping. I used that same exact set up for about a year. I actually get the same sharpness from a belt sander, but a belt sander is just a little faster.

Even though I have a belt sander now, I still like to hand sharpen sometimes. It's just so relaxing and it's alot more quiet than the belt sander.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

would you be open to another method of sharpening? here is a vid of a knife i made cutting free hanging newspaper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iDE2EBzBw

I could be. I'll watch this later. I don't really want to invest in more tools, but I'll check it out.


Thanks to everyone else too. It's good to know that I've got what I need already.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Truth is, I'm not very good at sharpening, but I'm wanting to correct this.

Fantastic! That's a great attitude. Lots of people here who can help. You've come to the right place. Some people want your money, but the rest of us understand that you have your own equipment already and just want to get better.

I want to sharpen my Case (CV and Tru-Sharp), Leatherman, GEC (1095) knives to razor sharp or real close. I have the following tools and figure on doing a 15 degree (30 degree total) edge.

Smith's Tri-Hone with the following stones:
Coarse Stone (no idea on the grit)
Medium Arkansas Stone (600 grit)
Fine Arkansas Stone (1000 grit)

I also have a strop with the green compound.

You have everything you need to put a scary sharp edge on a knife. How are you using that Tri-Hone and what are you lubricating it with? Are you using oil? I recommend Lansky oil. It's clear(ish), cheap as heck, and the appropriate weight for oil stones (contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't use just any old oil. The weight of the oil is important for optimal performance. If you are using mineral oil, cut it with kerosene in a 50/50 mix). If you're not using oil, try Simple Green cut with water. Just keep the surface sprayed with the stuff.

I figure that's not enough (am I wrong?).

You have everything you need to achieve your stated goal: "I'm just wanting a good sharp working blade. These aren't collectors items, I just want easy to cut without spending 24 hours on each blade. I don't plan on shaving, but I'd like for it to cut the hairs." Efficiency and speed comes with practice. I used to take more than an hour on a typical, utility-sized 420HC edge (going from butter knife dull or damaged to even bevels and scary sharp). I can do it in less than 1/2 hour now, and that's taking lots of time with my stropping.

I have a couple of questions:

1. How sharp can you get with the fine (1000 grit) stone? Just for reference. I understand that if nothing else going finer will give you a longer lasting blade.

2. Should I go higher than 2000 grit then a green strop? I'm just wanting a good sharp working blade. These aren't collectors items, I just want easy to cut without spending 24 hours on each blade. I don't plan on shaving, but I'd like for it to cut the hairs.

3. Do I really need the black compound for stropping?

1. Plenty sharp. If your edge is burr free and fully apexed, you can easily achieve your goals off of your final Arkansas stone and your green compound loaded strop.

2. Not really, to be honest. You'll be fine with your 1k stone and the strop. The real secret behind getting a scary sharp edge is to understand sharpening. It's about the technique, not the equipment. Once you get it and have done enough knives, you can sharpen on things around the house and get a scary sharp edge: a brick from the garden, the exposed bottom rim of a ceramic plate or cup, some newspaper, and the back of an old leather belt. My next challenge is to sharpen a dull utility knife to scary sharp on DMT diamond cards. I just bought the set of three (C, F, XF) and can't wait for them to arrive. It will be a challenge at first, since the surface area is so small and I haven't though of a way to set the cards up yet (maybe on top of a piece of leather on top of a book or something to prop it up... or on the edge of my sink), but I know I can do it because I have the concept down. It will just take time to figure out the best way.

3. You don't need the black compound. It is a step between your final stone and the green compound, but not necessary.


Finally, if I could impart any advice to you, it is to stop worrying about your equipment immediately (as said above, it is just fine), and start reading all the stickies here and watching vids by all the folks here (HeavyHanded, knifenut, Crimsontideshooter, and many others on YouTube), and then get your stones set up and just start sharpening. There will be more frustration along the way guaranteed, as you wonder what is happening when you don't get the intended results. That's when you come back and ask questions here. Take the knowledge, apply it, and keep sharpening. You will get better and will be getting scary sharp edges with any equipment on almost any knife in no time, guaranteed (some of the high speed steels can be a challenge, as can very soft, cheap steels on the opposite side of the spectrum, as those two extremes don't "behave" the way average steel behaves).

In short: watch the vids, read the stickies, and just get to it!

 

[richard j]

I could be. I'll watch this later. I don't really want to invest in more tools, but I'll check it out.


Thanks to everyone else too. It's good to know that I've got what I need already.

if you like how sharp the knife is in the vid, i sharpened it on the paper wheels.

 

[HeavyHanded]

My next challenge is to sharpen a dull utility knife to scary sharp on DMT diamond cards. I just bought the set of three (C, F, XF) and can't wait for them to arrive. It will be a challenge at first, since the surface area is so small and I haven't though of a way to set the cards up yet (maybe on top of a piece of leather on top of a book or something to prop it up... or on the edge of my sink), but I know I can do it because I have the concept down. It will just take time to figure out the best way.

I used some of the cork shelf liner on the back side to keep from slipping around, and just put 'em up to the edge of my counter or work bench.

You don't need the black compound. It is a step between your final stone and the green compound, but not necessary.

This is true for a refined edge, but it does come in handy for repairing and maintaining softer steels like machetes and cheap kitchen knives. Is possible to fix small chips and rolls with it and not use a stone - just finish with a finer compound (this might be muddying the waters). It also puts a real nice satin finish on Scandis and full convex edges, and works very well as a stropping compound right up to the 600 grit Arkansas or similar (IMHO) for hard use, toothy edges. Not to mention you can make a slurry on a piece of hardwood and....

HH

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Fantastic! That's a great attitude. Lots of people here who can help. You've come to the right place. Some people want your money, but the rest of us understand that you have your own equipment already and just want to get better.




You have everything you need to put a scary sharp edge on a knife. How are you using that Tri-Hone and what are you lubricating it with? Are you using oil? I recommend Lansky oil. It's clear(ish), cheap as heck, and the appropriate weight for oil stones (contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't use just any old oil. The weight of the oil is important for optimal performance. If you are using mineral oil, cut it with kerosene in a 50/50 mix). If you're not using oil, try Simple Green cut with water. Just keep the surface sprayed with the stuff.




You have everything you need to achieve your stated goal: "I'm just wanting a good sharp working blade. These aren't collectors items, I just want easy to cut without spending 24 hours on each blade. I don't plan on shaving, but I'd like for it to cut the hairs." Efficiency and speed comes with practice. I used to take more than an hour on a typical, utility-sized 420HC edge (going from butter knife dull or damaged to even bevels and scary sharp). I can do it in less than 1/2 hour now, and that's taking lots of time with my stropping.




1. Plenty sharp. If your edge is burr free and fully apexed, you can easily achieve your goals off of your final Arkansas stone and your green compound loaded strop.

2. Not really, to be honest. You'll be fine with your 1k stone and the strop. The real secret behind getting a scary sharp edge is to understand sharpening. It's about the technique, not the equipment. Once you get it and have done enough knives, you can sharpen on things around the house and get a scary sharp edge: a brick from the garden, the exposed bottom rim of a ceramic plate or cup, some newspaper, and the back of an old leather belt. My next challenge is to sharpen a dull utility knife to scary sharp on DMT diamond cards. I just bought the set of three (C, F, XF) and can't wait for them to arrive. It will be a challenge at first, since the surface area is so small and I haven't though of a way to set the cards up yet (maybe on top of a piece of leather on top of a book or something to prop it up... or on the edge of my sink), but I know I can do it because I have the concept down. It will just take time to figure out the best way.

3. You don't need the black compound. It is a step between your final stone and the green compound, but not necessary.


Finally, if I could impart any advice to you, it is to stop worrying about your equipment immediately (as said above, it is just fine), and start reading all the stickies here and watching vids by all the folks here (HeavyHanded, knifenut, Crimsontideshooter, and many others on YouTube), and then get your stones set up and just start sharpening. There will be more frustration along the way guaranteed, as you wonder what is happening when you don't get the intended results. That's when you come back and ask questions here. Take the knowledge, apply it, and keep sharpening. You will get better and will be getting scary sharp edges with any equipment on almost any knife in no time, guaranteed (some of the high speed steels can be a challenge, as can very soft, cheap steels on the opposite side of the spectrum, as those two extremes don't "behave" the way average steel behaves).

In short: watch the vids, read the stickies, and just get to it!

Thanks. I've been reading and watching, but got a little lost when I didn't have the same equipment. Seeing some of the guys going to 5000+ grit stuff had me swiming a bit.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Practice is key!

I'd grab a load of kitchen knives and sharpen them all. It's all about raising a burr then knocking it off cleanly.

 

[atomedge]

http://www.reddit.com/r/knives/comments/tl99w/im_going_to_give_you_all_this_one_time_one_time/

Check that dude, it's a sharpening guide I made over on reddit.com/r/knives. I'm the sharpening guru there.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Mag, I also got the same DMT set. Haven't had much chance testing them out. Please share when you do.

To OP, what Mag refer to is this sticky:
www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1014274-What-is-sharpening-a-knife-about
It helps getting down the basic, especially useful if your claim of not yet mastering the skill is accurate (perhaps you're good already, wanting to be better).

 

[Magnaminous_G]

I used some of the cork shelf liner on the back side to keep from slipping around, and just put 'em up to the edge of my counter or work bench.

Mag, I also got the same DMT set. Haven't had much chance testing them out. Please share when you do.

I got the perfect candidate for a backing. I’ve got this Fellowes mouse pad at work that has this incredibly grippy, slick backing that sticks like glue to anything and won’t move. I have to put a piece of paper under it just so I can move it around the desk when I’m at my computer. I’m gonna cut out a piece in the exact shape of the cards and see how that works out. I can’t wait for the cards to arrive... It's gonna be a fun project.

Thanks. I've been reading and watching, but got a little lost when I didn't have the same equipment. Seeing some of the guys going to 5000+ grit stuff had me swiming a bit.

I very much understand. You see guys who have the whole set of Diasharp and Duosharp bench stones, an armada of water stones of every make and grit, and a medicine chest full of sprays, pastes, and compounds, and yes, they get fantastic edges. So you wonder if you need all that stuff (which, by the way, can cost you thousands upon thousands of dollars if you really do buy them all). And you see people finishing on high grit stones and moving onto those pastes. Here’s the straight dope: high quality gear definitely can make the sharpening experience smoother, faster, and more enjoyable, but for your stated goals (just getting a good, sharp edge), they aren’t necessary. That’s not to say they won’t make your life easier and more comfortable (because they will), but they are not necessary, at all. HH does most of his work on an economy stone ($5… count e’m, 5) and gets scary sharp edges. Watch his vids (YouTube handle = Neuman2010).

Case in point: I’ve got the full set of 10” DMT Duosharp bench stones. They are an extravagant, extravagant luxury, and that’s all. The things cost $200 a piece. I don’t even use them that often these days. It is pure luxury to have 10” of diamonds to work on. All that real estate to work your edge on is soooo nice. I have the money, and I enjoy sharpening, and I sharpen enough knives that I feel that it is worth it to me. It is a personal choice. But are those things necessary? No. If you’ve got the money to burn and you want to buy, go ahead.

This is true for a refined edge, but it does come in handy for repairing and maintaining softer steels like machetes and cheap kitchen knives. Is possible to fix small chips and rolls with it and not use a stone - just finish with a finer compound (this might be muddying the waters). It also puts a real nice satin finish on Scandis and full convex edges, and works very well as a stropping compound right up to the 600 grit Arkansas or similar (IMHO) for hard use, toothy edges. Not to mention you can make a slurry on a piece of hardwood and....

I didn’t say black compound wasn’t good, dammit, HH! I was answering the OP’s question: “Do I really need the black compound for stropping?” I’m trying to convince him that he doesn’t “need” it, given his simple goals, but yeah, black compound is great stuff.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Again, thanks for the help. This thread has really been what I needed.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

My next challenge is to sharpen a dull utility knife to scary sharp on DMT diamond cards. I just bought the set of three (C, F, XF) and can't wait for them to arrive. It will be a challenge at first, since the surface area is so small and I haven't though of a way to set the cards up yet (maybe on top of a piece of leather on top of a book or something to prop it up... or on the edge of my sink), but I know I can do it because I have the concept down. It will just take time to figure out the best way.

Mag, I also got the same DMT set. Haven't had much chance testing them out. Please share when you do.

I got the perfect candidate for a backing. I’ve got this Fellowes mouse pad at work that has this incredibly grippy, slick backing that sticks like glue to anything and won’t move. I have to put a piece of paper under it just so I can move it around the desk when I’m at my computer. I’m gonna cut out a piece in the exact shape of the cards and see how that works out. I can’t wait for the cards to arrive... It's gonna be a fun project.

Aw, hellz. It’s on. I got my cards in the mail today, and I cut out a piece of that Fellowes mouse pad backing to match today. It is everything I thought it would be. It’s the PERFECT backing: light and super-grippy. I tested it out on a number of surfaces, and it sticks like glue; the DMT card doesn’t move, at all. Gonna wait until I can make a vid and try this baby out.