How do I install mosaic pins/handle scales on a fixed blade?

J

J S Machine

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Oct 15, 2007
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I have just about finished my first knife, which is a folder. I have posted some pics of it, but they were when it was about halfway done. I am still waiting on the heat treat oven at work so that I can heat treat the blade. work comes first lol..

I have started on a second knife already and its going to be a fixed blade. Its a small knife about 7.5 inches long overall. I cut some pieces of eucalyptus wood that I used for inserts on my folder to use as scales for this knife. I love the way mosaic pins look, but I have never done them. I figured they can't be that hard. If I mess them up, I will just keep trying.

I ordered a .25 inch mosaic pin kit form AKS. I did a search and found some things but not all of the info I need. I am ready to mount the handles on this knife, but I don't know how you guys do it. I kind of get the hint that they are glued on, and the pins just keep everything steady. Am I right?

I was going to take my blade and ream a .25 hole in it. Then I was going to take my handles and ream them .0005 undersize. That way the pins would be snug in the handle scales but not bind in the blade steel. I am kind of questioning my judgement here though, as I don't want the wood to split when i press the pin housing in. Would this be the correct way to do this? I understand that you fill the voids in the mosaic pins with epoxy. Would I just use stuff from wal mart- like some devcon stuff? Is this what I would use for the handles also? Also would it be a good idea to scuff the blade tang and the insides of the scales too before I try and bond everything?

Thanks for the hints guys.

Oh and I also tried my hand at file work on the back of the blade between the scales. Just wait untill I post pics of that. It looks awesome, and it isn't hard at all!:D
 
I didn't see any mosaic pin kits on the AKS site, though they do carry tubes and rods from which you could make your own (that's what I do.) Are you sure you didn't just order mosaic pins from them? If so, the voids are already filled with epoxy. They come in roughly 12" lengths, and you just slice off the amount you want for a single pin. If you're making your own, then you do fill the voids with epoxy, usually colored black.

I use a drill bit that is just a couple of thousandths over the size of my pin (a #1 or #2 in my case, as I use 7/32 tube for my pins - for 1/4" tube, use a letter F drill) in both the tang and the scales. THe epoxy holds the scales down. The pins provide protection from shear (sideways) stress. Though some prefer a press fit, it isn't a necessity, and as you point out, you risk cracking your scales that way.

I prefer 24 hour cure epoxy, as it's stronger than the 5 minute kind. I use Conap, though Sheffield informed me they no longer carry it when I tried to order some more a few days ago - hopefully, I can find someone else that carries it.

I like to put a hollow grind in my tang with 60 grit to help the epoxy hold. Extra holes drilled in the tang will do the same thing. Roughing up the back of the scales is also a good idea.

Clamp the scales down while the epoxy is curing, but don't clamp too tightly. You don't want to squeeze all the epoxy out.
 
nice tips ABS, I was wondering the same thing, thx JS and let us know how it goes (with pics please!).
 
Yeah I don\'t guess I really know what the mosaic pin setup i ordered is. Guess I will find out in a day or so when I get it lol. The part number is MPS250B-219 if you want to check it out on the site. It\'s under mosaic pins. If I have to put them together thats ok.

My tang is a full piece. in other words it takes up the whole shape of the handle, and will be the same thickness. the knife blade and handle are all one piece.

So you say drilling holes through the handle will help? I have seen how others have done this, but I didn\'t know what it was for. Guess thats it. I guess I will get some good epoxy for use on wood and metal.

Since you say the pins are really only for \"shear action\", or to keep the handles from sliding, I think I will use a .25 reamer through the tang and then a .0005 oversize through the scales. that will give it just enough room to make a good fit, but not bind and risk splitting the scales.

Thanks
 
MBS250B-219 is a 1/4" diameter x 11.8" long mosaic pin. It has a small round brass tube inside of a square brass tube inside of a larger round brass tube. There are also 14 small pins that are probably nickel silver.

It's already put together and filled with black epoxy. You only need to cut off the length that you need and put it into the correct size hole. I agree with Mr. Schaller on the drill size. A letter F drill will work great.

Some suggestions from my experiences.

  • Drill the pin holes in the tang first.
  • Then take your block of handle material and profile it so that it covers your tang with very little overlap.
  • Make sure the end of the block that will be against the guard or at the ricasso, (if your not using a guard) is completely square to the sides!
  • Then split your block into two pieces, by running it through a band saw or table saw, thus creating two scales that are mirror images of one anther in size and shape.
  • Clamp a file guide onto your knife blank at the ricasso. Use this file guide to line up that perfectly squared end of the handle scales to exactly where you want it. If you're using a guard, do it first, before doing the handle scales. Put the guard against the file guide. Once the two guards are on the scale, you can take the file guide off and use the back ends of the guard for your guide for the handle scales.
  • Epoxy the first scale onto the tang, butting it up against the file guide or guard.
  • Once it is completely cured, drill your pin holes, using the tang holes as a template.
  • Epoxy the other scale on and let it cure completely.
  • Drill back through your first handle scale and tang to drill out the other scale.
  • Cut your mosaic pins just ever so slightly longer than your handle material and tang overall thickness.
  • Slop the pins up with epoxy and push them in. The epoxy actually acts like a lubricant and they aren't very difficult to put in. Make sure that they are turned (rotated) to match pattern wise. Especially with the pin you purchased. That square tube will stand out if you don't have the squares lined up the same.
  • Let it cure completely again.
  • You can now take off the file guide. The fronts of your handle scales will be perfectly aligned every time, using this method!
  • Now you can begin shaping the handle.

Here's a picture of what you can do with this procedure.

Good luck. That's a nice looking mosaic pin, by the way!
 
yall are great. thanks a lot!

I will include some pics, and position the pins in several positions. Then, I will ask what you guys think about how i have them positioned, before i glue them.
 
J S Machine said:
yall are great. thanks a lot!

I will include some pics, and position the pins in several positions. Then, I will ask what you guys think about how i have them positioned, before i glue them.
Click to expand...

When I position pins, most of it is artistic in nature. I've learned that if I put two pins down the center of the handle, I actually position them slightly above the centerline. It just looks better. They almost always look to low on the handle if you position them right on the center line.

How far from front to back to space them is also artistic in nature.

Like I said earlier though, make sure to rotate them so that the pattern lines up.
 
Scott and Brett had some great tips. One to add is that if there is not going to be a guard or bolster, shape and polish the front of the scales prior to assembly. It is nearly impossible to get the front end shaped evenly (without messing up the blade) after they are mounted.Also,Set the square in the mosaic as a diamond (corner up), it will look much better this way.
Brett's advise on grinding out a little bit of a hollow grind in the area covered by the scales (leave about 1/4" flat surface around the perimeter) is dead on. You will squeeze out all the epoxy if the scales and the tang are both flat and smooth. Drilling several extra holes is also a real good idea. Many of mine look like Swiss cheese before assembly.

On making bookmatched scales (mirror image side-to-side):
If the handle will be approx. 3/4 thick and the tang is 1/8 thick the scales will be 5/16" each. Trim the block of wood to 1" thick and sand the two sides perfectly flat at 100-120grit. It is not necessary that the be parallel,just flat.It should be about 7/8" now.Take a marker and put an "X" on the narrow side that will be the top of the scales (or the bottom, doesn't matter).
Now cut the block exactly in half on the table saw. The scales should be about 3/8" each now. The sawn surface is left just as it is, don't sand it. Take the two pieces and flip them so the sanded surfaces are now together, using the "X" (it will now form a diamond) as a guide to keep them oriented. You now have a bookmatched set of scales with the exact pattern on both sides. At this point, tape them tightly together with masking tape, and sand and shape the end that will be at the ricasso. Polish this surface now, as it won't polish right after assembly. Take the tape off, and assemble the scales as said in Scott's post. When the clamps are on the second scale, and the glue is not cured, look at the front of the scales from all directions.Make any little adjustments now to assure the fronts are exactly even with each other. Once the glue is dry, and the rivets are in place, sand the handle to shape, removing that last 1/16-1/8 from the outer surface of the scales to get a perfect handle.
This method is one of the differences between a nice knife and a show winning knife.
Stacy
 
yall are great. thanks a lot!

I will include some pics, and position the pins in several positions. Then, I will ask what you guys think about how i have them positioned, before i glue them.
 
How do you guys sand and polish your handles? Would you do it like a piece of metal--progressively finer grits of sandpaper and then polish? I\'m guessing I wouldn\'t use metal polish lol...

What is it that makes the wood shine? is it the epoxy that is there to stabilze the wood?
 
A. Brett Schaller said:
I use a drill bit that is just a couple of thousandths over the size of my pin (a #1 or #2 in my case, as I use 7/32 tube for my pins - for 1/4" tube, use a letter F drill) in both the tang and the scales. THe epoxy holds the scales down. The pins provide protection from shear (sideways) stress. Though some prefer a press fit, it isn't a necessity, and as you point out, you risk cracking your scales that way.
Click to expand...

Not to hijack the thread but I wanted to throw out a quik question. If you use letter F for a 1/4" what do you use for a 1/8" pin? I have not really been able to find something just a little bit over sized. Thanks. Sorry to jump in the middle here.
 
Some great, helpful people here, may Santa bring you all 2 bags, one of what you need and one of what you want! :D
 
WadeH said:
Not to hijack the thread but I wanted to throw out a quik question. If you use letter F for a 1/4" what do you use for a 1/8" pin? I have not really been able to find something just a little bit over sized. Thanks. Sorry to jump in the middle here.
Click to expand...


for 1/8 inch , use a #30.
 
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