How do traditional hand forged katanas compare to modern high end swords?

Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
3,634
How would a hand forged san mai katana, forged by a master using traditional techniques and steel compare to modern swords like the Busse AK 47 and other high end swords made with cutting edge steels in terms of durability, edge holding, and overall cutting ability?

What would happen if the two swords clashed? Would stock infi prevail over hand forged japanese san mai?

discuss.
 
KalEl said:
What would happen if the two swords clashed? Would stock infi prevail over hand forged japanese san mai?
Click to expand...
First, this should probably be in the Swords section of the forum, not the General section.

Second, traditional Japanese swords were not made of San Mai® steel. San Mai® is a trade name for the industrially produced three layer (san = three in Japanese) laminated steel that Cold Steel uses to make some of their more expensive knives.

Traditional Japanese blades were made through a number of hand forging processes that sometimes involved hammer welding two or more dissimilar types of steel together, and/or folding and refolding a bar of steel to produced layers of harder and softer steel, according to carbon content.

Third, the reason that Japanese swordsmiths went to the considerable trouble to make swords that way was because the metallurgy of the time was not sufficient to impart the necessary properties to a homogeneous piece of steel. Now, IMO (and it is just oppinion, I don't think anyone has tried beating an expensive heirloom sword with a Swamp Rat Waki) with modern steels I think that blades as least as good can be made without the tedious forging and reforging of traditional methods.
 
"Traditional Japanese blades were made through a number of hand forging processes that sometimes involved hammer welding two or more dissimilar types of steel together, and/or folding and refolding a bar of steel to produced layers of harder and softer steel, according to carbon content."

Traditional swords were layered in different types of steel ... ever ... sometimes ... at all ... traditional?
 
Start here


The edges of swords are never meant to clash.



If I had to pick for pure performance I would chose a Japanese sword. If I wanted something I could beat the tar out of I'd get a busse.
 
The most durable katanas were made with the laminated steel. I just said san mai because the high carbon low carbon recipe resulted in the finest swords. So in essence how does the best of the traditional swords compare with the best of current production?
 
Chances are they would be about the same. The difference is industrialization.
You don't need a grand master to make a good modern sword, since we now have massive stores of extremely clean and consistent steel, and can do decent heat treating on a large scale.
 
This kind of issues require deep though and practical experimentation, so I volunteer to receive a pristine example of each of these metallurgical pieces of art and take very good care of them in my collection. Of course I would latter let you know of the results. :D

In all seriousness, an excellent example of a traditionally made Katana can split a bullet in two (shot toward the katana's edge) without suffering serious edge damage. The attention to detail in the forging, folding, and heat-treatment process was seen as part of a spiritual discipline. In spite of the technological advances we've made as a race, there are a few things the "ancients" got so right they still surprise us today. The pyramids are a good example. Traditionally hand-forged and folded Katanas is another. I think that in overall performance, the Katana would outperform a Waki, just don't try to use it as a pry bar.
 
Nobody that I know of is going to risk a 6 or 7 figure sword to find out.
 
The traditional Japanese Katana is no slouch indeed. It can take several .50 BMG rounds before it gives up its ghost.
[youtube]YPQ1W3qobys[/youtube]

A good modern sword made of properly heat treated AISI S7 steel will give the Katana a run for its money at a small fraction of the price. If the modern sword is made of modern Wootz/Bulat/real damascus, I'm going to put my money on the Wootz.
 
KalEl said:
The most durable katanas were made with the laminated steel. I just said san mai because the high carbon low carbon recipe resulted in the finest swords. So in essence how does the best of the traditional swords compare with the best of current production?
Click to expand...

In an overall strength test? I would say there's no question the katana would outperform modern high end blades. That being said, there would be some categories that the modern high end blades might be better in. Like maybe a pure edge strength test. Could a modern high end blade survive a machine gun like the katana can? I think you would see alot more people using katana style forging and steel if it werent so time consuming, difficult, and expensive to make.
 
KalEl said:
How would a hand forged san mai katana, forged by a master using traditional techniques and steel compare to modern swords like the Busse AK 47 and other high end swords made with cutting edge steels in terms of durability, edge holding, and overall cutting ability?

What would happen if the two swords clashed? Would stock infi prevail over hand forged japanese san mai?

discuss.
Click to expand...

Did you hear all of those words in Japanese? That guy was saying see .50 cal bullets get sliced in half. This BUSEE steel can't touch this shizz*t. I cut Infi blade in half with one slice. :D
 
knifenut1013 said:
So I guess shooting a sword is the defining test?
Click to expand...

It's the closest we got, since nobody else volunteers his expensive traditional Katana. At least the video shows that it can cut through a couple of inches of copper jacketed lead at .50 width.

This one is a milder test. Fast forward to around 8:00
[youtube]nj1Jytiw8e0[/youtube]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top