How do you guys work with G10 safely?

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,703
I started yesterday using the stuff and man does it create a lot of dust. And that's even with my dust collection system which is pretty good. :(

Since inhaling the dust is dangerous, do you guys clean up after every time you grind?

I mean, I wear a mask (Airshield) when grinding/sanding but I have to take it off eventually and then the dust lying around just gets kicked back in the air when doing other stuff. :confused:

How do you guys do it, short of doing all the work wet, which is kind of complicated for me and would require dedicated equipment/work station.

Thanks.
 
Here's how I do it:
I keep G10 out of my shop. Other than colors, it offers nothing that other materials don't.
 
I put on a mask, set up an exhaust fan to blow across the work area and open my garage door and let it blow outside. Living is Southern California has its benefits because of the weather :)
 
I built 3 boats out of epoxy and fiberglass, my nick names were "Itchy" or "Sticky" depending on what part of the process I was in at the time. So I stay away from fiberglass on my knife handles, I use Garolite XX most of the time, I think is comes in black or black.
 
I use a dust collector along with a full face mask. I try to vacuum the dust up ASAP.
 
I am glad I saw this post. I re-did a machete handle in it, and although I wore a respirator while sanding it outside. I cleaned up without it, and it seemed to get everywhere including on my clothes and boots. I could smell it my nose that night. Probably will not be using it again, and if I do it will be with great precaution.
Thanks
 
It's not really any different from any other material, including steel, when it comes to dust. Dust is bad for you, period. If you really want to keep clean, put your house/street clothes in a bag when you come into the shop and change into long sleeves and pants that are only for knife-work.

Mitchell Knives said:
I use a dust collector along with a full face mask. I try to vacuum the dust up ASAP.
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Yup, before taking off the respirator. Every shop needs a Shop-Vac anyway. Just be sure to wear your mask when emptying it outside.

Bill DeShivs said:
I keep G10 out of my shop. Other than colors, it offers nothing that other materials don't.
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Yeah... except for being easy as pie to drill cleanly without chipping out, holding up in weird shapes, being stronger and resisting scratches better, not fading or darkening, not absorbing moisture and other gunk, not shrinking/swelling, not causing nasty allergic reactions like many woods, accepting and keeping any finish from smooth as glass to deeply checkered, and requiring zero maintenance, G10 is totally worthless as a knife handle material. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks guys, some things to think about.

As far as dust, definitely finer than any I've seen before so harder to remove compared to steel dust and most wood dust.

Short of finding a magical way to take care of the problem, which if course I realize doesn't exist, I will probably do like Bill. For now anyway, of course in the future in a new shop, I could setup a wet area to work it.

PS: jtwodogs, I am so glad that this thread made you aware of the potential hazard. That alone makes this the best kind of thread for me. :thumbup:
 
I feel so bad for you older gentlemen who have to deal with things like this.

Us younger guys have nothing to worry about as they will be growing brand spanking new personally cloned 3M replacement lungs in test-tubes soon!
 
Let's leave politics out of it, folks.

Patrice Lemée;13392057 said:
As far as dust, definitely finer than any I've seen before so harder to remove compared to steel dust and most wood dust.
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Wait till you try working with carbon fiber ;)
 
Other than colors, G10 offers nothing that Micarta doesn't do.
It may have some advantages, but they are slight and not worth the danger to me.
If I were going to work it, I would use a wet tile saw, wet grinders, and sand it wet.
 
Patrice Lemée;13392374 said:
So Micarta isn't as bad dust wise but more for the fumes?
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Saying one type of dust is somehow "less bad" than another is just silly. A properly-fitted respirator with the right cartridges will protect you from both.

Bill DeShivs said:
Other than colors, G10 offers nothing that Micarta doesn't do.
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That is simply and flatly untrue, especially as regards absorbing gunk, and durability.

Micarta's a lot cheaper, traditional/widely loved and looks really nice when finished right... I assure you, I'd happily use it more if I wasn't absolutely certain it's simply not as good a material as G10.
 
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James,

I'm sure you weren't trying to be testy with Bill, but your tone when read might be perceived that way. We wouldn't want to inadvertently alienate a valued contributor here.


Some thoughts about micarta and G10:

Micarta is not a lot cheaper. Cheapass Chinese phenolic is a lot cheeper. Good micarta is about .40 per cubic inch when bought in bulk. Quality G10 is similar. Cheap import junk is about .10 per cubic inch in bulk.

There is a difference between the old real micarta and most of the phenolic available floating around today. If you've had bad experience with "micarta" absorbing stuff I have to wonder if you had the good stuff. Westinghouse Micarta was hard and durable and stable. There are some good materials available today, including from the folks who bought the micarta name, but they're not as common as the import junk so you have to be diligent.

Saying one type of dust is more dangerous than another is not silly. One way or another, you're eventually going to get exposed. Some dusts are significantly worse than others.

I believe that G10 dust is worse than phenolic dust. Epoxy is a greater sensitizing agent than phenolic. Glass is worse than cotton to breath. Phenolic does create toxic formaldehyde fumes when it gets hot, so I don't get it hot. Just because you smell it doesn't mean its particularity toxic, but once it gets really hot and truly reeks you're in "danger land".

Phenolic offers some physical properties advantages over epoxy.

I use both in my shop but charge a $15 premium for G10 because it is abrasive to tooling and machinery. I process it wet. Setting up a grinder to run wet is not a big deal and will deal with the dust fairly effectively. I generate literally tons of "mud" in my shop.

Unless your shopvac has a HEPA filter, sucking up dust cleans the shop but put the smallest and most dangerous invisible partials in the air.

I prefer micarta to G10 on my own personal knives because it is just as grippy when wet, if not more, and it weighs less. It's not a strong as G10, but we're talking about a role that was traditionally filled by wood here...
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm sure you weren't trying to be testy with Bill, but your tone when read might be perceived that way. We wouldn't want to inadvertently alienate a valued contributor here.
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Certainly not!

Nathan the Machinist said:
There is a difference between the old real micarta and most of the phenolic available floating around today. If you've had bad experience with "micarta" absorbing stuff I have to wonder if you had the good stuff.
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I will have to take your word on that. I'm in the unfortunate but far-from-rare position of using only what's been available to me in the last few years (actually, from month-to-month... I don't store this stuff by the ton, I use it up and order more as I go along), and judging it based on my own experience. Which is reasonably varied as far as sources go, yet 100% consistent in results. What may have been truly wonderful stuff ten or twenty years ago doesn't help me at all today.

Of course you're right that different materials carry different hazards... but we're talking about matters of degree. My point is simply that all dust is hazardous, and demands common sense and PPE.

It's important to remember that these threads are not a closed loop that disappears tomorrow... this stuff hangs around for decades and who-knows-who might stumble across this discussion years from now. Writing off G-10 completely because of some weird bias or fond memories of how great true patented Westinghouse Micarta used to be IS silly... unless of course, one just doesn't care to address the market that wants G10.

In any case, thanks for your insights :)

disclaimer: I am not paid by any vendor, nor do I have any vested interest in any company that manufactures G10
 
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Thanks Nathan, that is great info. I was under the impression that as soon as you smelled the phenolic it meant that this was the toxic fumes they were talking about. That said, I will not taking chances and only use it if I can do it wet.

James, I don't think that this will give people the wrong idea. It is pretty clear that this is a personal choice, just like mine.
And at worst if a few people do choose not to use it based solely on this thread, it will just be making them safer, not endanger then. So to me it's all good. :thumbup:
 
I use a lot of G10, here's what I do.

- use a dust collector or keep a shop vac nearby... when drilling I carefully dip my dusty piece into soapy water between holes to keep it clean

- wear your respirator during clean up and leave your shop afterwards to air out

- after dry clean up spray your work area down with windex and wipe clean

- use a fine particle filter to remove the dust from the air (I'm about to seriously upgrade here)

- vent your grinding area away from you with fresh air coming in from behind <---- important!



I'm currently changing my dust collector setup from recirculating to positive ventilation and adding a couple of industrial filters for air quality. Even with a full face respirator on I know the real hazard is the lingering fine particles that are the toughest to control.
 
Avigil, I do the exact same thing and try to use the g10 just before an extensive shop cleaning that I do about 5 times a year. I do not like the product as well as micarta or hardwood. Just my opinion. Larry Lehman, Bakersfield, Ca
 
Nathan, I use micarta once in while and have many pieces of it from Jantz and Texas knife supply. It seems to finish well and is pretty. Is this stuff the "not so good stuff"? Can I buy some of the Westinghouse micarta in small amounts somewhere? I want to use the "best" material if I can for my knives. Your suggestion would be appreciated. Larry Lehman PS Love your platen and chiller.....cool! LL
 
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