How Do You Personally Define Quality?

RWS

RWS

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Jul 10, 2003
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How do you personally define quality in a custom made knife?

Quality is such a subjective term, IMO. How I define quality may have nothing at all to do with how you would define it.

Nevertheless, what are those particular things about any of the custom knives you own or that you’re looking at, or holding in your hand, that help you quickly establish in your own mind that it’s well made and of high quality and is worthy of its custom price tag as well as its classification as “CUSTOM”?

I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I don't think I'm talking about things like the beauty of say a certain handle material that was chosen by the maker, although that could be part of the quality definition, I guess.

For example, years before I began collecting custom knives, I stopped by a table at a gun show that had knives for sale. Mostly Benchmades and Spydercos. At the corner of the table was a wooden display box with some custom made folders in it.

Out of curiosity, I asked one of the sellers if I may see the one custom knife that caught my eye.
Up until that point, my idea of the perfect pocketknife was a $36 Spyderco Endura.

So the guy takes this knife out of the display case and hands it to me. It was an Elishewitz folder. I had never heard of him and wasn’t even aware that there was such a thing as custom made knives.

This knife opened and closed so smoothly. I couldn’t believe what I was experiencing. It had this feel and look to it that I couldn’t compare to any pocketknife I had ever seen or owned. I knew that this custom knife was from a different world. It spoke of quality based on my experience with the production knives I was use to.

I asked how much and needless to say I didn’t buy it.

I currently carry a Spyderco Military.

To this day, I use the “smooth open and shut” test on folders as part of my testing for quality.

I collect Bowies and I find it ironic that the one thing I never consider when buying a Bowie is its ability to cut.
That's probably the most important real test you could give a knife and I don't even consider it.
That seems pretty silly but I don't use my Bowies.
 
Great topic.

Short answer: Workmanship, design, materials. In that order.

Long answer: Let me think about it and watch this thread.

Coop
 
In custom knives, the first thing I look for is the quality of person that made it. I don't care how perfect the knife is, if the maker is a prick. To me, that is the factor that will make or break a sell, the person behind it.

After that, I look at materials, fit, finish, grinds, flow, design, feel, etc... There's a lot of factors that can make or break a knife sell. For me, in a quality piece, the biggest factors are maker, materials, design, and fit/finish.

JR
 
To me materials only matter to a certain extent. A knife can be very high quality and be made from 440C or 1050, and Micarta™. Quality to me is in the workmanship (including fit & finish), balance (of the design as well as the knife itself), functionality and ergonomics of the piece.

As far as the maker is concerned, the quality of the man/woman I'm thinking of dealing with is important in my purchasing decision, but not in my consideration of the quality of the knife. I know for a fact that there are makers that I would never buy from that make high quality knives.

Personally, I don't think that quality is subjective. I think that we all have basically the same thoughts as to what makes for a high quality knife. There are things in the design of a knife that some people will like and some won't. These are personal preferences and they can be very subjective.
 
Maybe quality is the wrong word. Let me ask it this way. If a dozen popular custom makers were each asked to make the same type of knife(i.e., hunter, Bowie, folder or whatever) what would you as the judge of those twelve finished knives do to determine which maker made a better custom knife?

I guess what I’m trying to do with this thread is elicit a more detailed discussion about the ritual each of us goes through each time we pick up a knife for the first time to determine whether the maker is really good at what he does and what makes him a better maker than the other guy who makes similar knives.
 
I guess the first thing I look for is symmetry. Although I bought a skinner that I liked the looks of in spite of a ricasso that was a good 1/8 inch off on either side. It was well under $100 so I thought I had little to loose. This was a rare occurance.
Next is fit of blade, handle, pommel guard and not to be forgotten, pins. I hate pins that are out of round.
More than one folder sale was made due to the action being super smooth ( Koji Hara and Kirk Rexroat). I may have purchased them anyway but after opening and closing them I had to as they "spoke" volumes to me. Mostly they said "take me home" .
One big thing is that if I like most of a makers knives I see then I want one made by that maker. I always liked Josh Smiths knives so at the 1st ABS Exposition I ordered one from him. I told him the models I liked and said make me something you like. I was not disappointed.
 
I'll agree that smooth action and very tight tolerances on a folder are the best start. From there it is how the knife feels. To me, a good knifemaker makes the ergonomics almost invisible, but you sure can feel the difference.
Comparing my Darrel Ralph Maxx to the Cuda version or my Sebenza is almost a joke. I like both production blades, but the custom's carved handle and balance are immediately noticeable. It snugs into the hand, even with the pocket clip and flat design.
I have a mini-scimitar folder by J.W. Smith that is also extremely comfortable to use, and smooth as silk in action. The handle shape is unassuming, but it snugs right into my palm.
Production knives and customs by less experienced/talented makers seem clunky by comparison.
I do collect Bowies and use most of them. How does it index in the hand? Does it balance well? Does it feel like you're swinging an axe? Is it sharp? How symmetrical is it where the two main grinds meet at the choil? Is the point well formed?
I'd like to say that "workmanship, design, materials" in that order, but I'll admit that I shy away from ATS-34 and 440C because of bad experiences with production knives of those steels. I'm sure custom makers can make them perform a lot better, I need to take the plunge eventually. And Jeremy said it right. The wrong attitude will sour me on any knife. Professionalism is important to me.
 
The first thing I look at is fit & finish and whether there are any obvious flaws. Then I check how the knife feels in my hand. On a folder I also check for a smooth action, for blade play and whether the blade centers when closed.

The above is how I would decide on the comparative quality of the 12 knives, it is only part of how I would decide which ones I would prefer for myself. This is the point where personal preference takes over and how the knives grab me becomes the final deciding factor.
 
The first thing I look at on a fixed blade is how the guard fits all around the blade where it actually touches the blade. If I feel the lines/gaps between the blade and guard are visually unappealing, I put the knife down even if the rest of the knife is perfect.

Then, I check the finish on the guard itself to see if it shows signs of torture :) as it was put on the knife. Then I check to see if the blade side of the guard has been properly polished/sanded. At least for some stock removal knives, these prior two items seem to be where a lot of knives come up short.

Then, I look at the transition lines between buttcap, handle material and spacers and ferrule on the handle.

Then, I examine the knife for tool marks and then for how it feels.

For some reason, I never concern myself with what would seem to be a more pressing issue which is "does the damn thing cut.?" I wonder if this makes me a "girly-man" collector. :D
 
It's a bit off-topic, but I have to share these two things with you.

First, many years ago, when I worked in the military/industrial sector, I was in a meeting with a man who was the Air Force's pointman on intergrity in avionics. "Integrity" is sort of the Air Force's word for quality. He displayed an overhead transparency that I liked so much that I actually went through the entire process of having it declassified. It read:

Quality Must Be Defined From The Customer's Perspective

It took almost six months to get that declassified.




Second, many years ago, at the height of the "quality/six-sigma craze," I attended a seminar on quality. The speaker asked each person to give the best example he could think of of quality. On fellow answer, "My poolman." The instructor asked him to explain. So, the student went on to explain that he was born and raised in a very cold climate (I don't remember which city). In that city, private swimming pools were very rare since they'd only be useful a few months out of the year. Certainly, his family hadn't had one. He'd gone to collage in the same area and then got a job back in his old hometown. He worked there for many years until his company told him that he'd risen as far as he could within that company in that city. If he wanted to advance, he'd have to move to Phoenix, AZ. So, after some consideration, he decided to take the move. He hooked up with a real estate agent in Phoenix and described what he wanted and the agent started faxing him flyers about various houses. All of them had swimming pools. This guy had heard that pools are major maintenance hassles. He didn't swim. Neither did his wife. Nor did their teenage children. So, he called the agent and said, "no pool." The agent explained that all houses in the range he was looking for in Phoenix have pools. The agent also explained that pools are no problem, you just hire a poolman to take care of it for you; it's sort of like a lawn service. Eventually, they found a wonderful house at a great price with, of course, a pool. After they signed all the paperwork, the seller said, "We've got a very good poolman. He's been taking care of our pool for eight or ten years. If you'd like, I'll have him call you." Of course, the guy said yes.

The guy went on to explain that he has now lived in that house for twelve years. Their children immediately took to the pool and both he and his wife are now avid swimmers. And in those 12 years, he has never met this poolman and only talked to him on the phone a few times. The guy comes during the day when he and his wife are both at work.

He explained that whenever two or more Phoenix residents are gathered, the topic of swimming pool maintenance always comes up. Everyone has problems with their pools. Everyone has problems with their poolman. He referred a couple of friends to his poolman, but one of the few telephone conversations he's had was when the poolman called to explain that he's 100% booked and can't take any new clients... hasn't for about ten years.

This guy went on to extol the virtues of his pool, how it's always sparking and nice, etc. And yet he has never met the poolman and only talked to him a few times in twelve years.

That's quality. You don't have to hassle with it, it just works.
 
With knives I purchase for my collection I never cut anything either. On users, after the initial inspection, the first thing I do is try the knife out.
 
Attention to detail. When I bought my first Microtech SOCOM in 97 I knew nothing about the company, just that they produced a quality product.
 
Gollnick said:
This guy went on to extol the virtues of his pool, how it's always sparking and nice, etc. And yet he has never met the poolman and only talked to him a few times in twelve years.
Click to expand...
In the risk of being off topic, there's a Stephen King story waiting to be written in there. :)
It's a good anecdote, that is definitely quality service.
 
To me, quality has three components:

1 - Fit & finish: For me, this is the aspect where a given level has to be achieved, beyond which I don't get any additional pleasure. F&F should be very, very good - it doesn't have to be very, very, very good.

2 - Materials: Least important of the three, because I'm really to compromise on it, but ideally, I would want mostly ivory. One thing which bugs me a bit is to see superb work of art with a non-descript wood handle. Sometimes, you'd wish the maker had shelled the additional $30 to get a really exceptional piece of ironwood rather than a plain one. I have a $700 bowie like that: the piece is great, with some fancy work, and yet, the handle is a piece of plain ironwood that looks like nothing. I don't understand that.

3 - Design: By far the most important aspect is design. Depending on makers, the design could be nearly a trademarked finish (Rob Hudson's octogonal handles, Fuegen's carving, Winkler's unique look), or a combination of little things that make it clear that this is a Fogg, a Fisk, or a Bradshaw.

JD
 
To me, it's all about the fit and finish and how much of the maker's time and effort was put into the knife. Interesting to see this thread today, as a friend of mine was just showing off his new custom damascus bladed folder at lunch. I looked at the knife and was fairly impressed; until I looked closer at the blade. While the grinds were even, it was obvious that the maker spent very little time finishing the blade before etching it to bring out the pattern. Without even looking too close, I could see fairly coarse grinding scratches. Obviously, the maker spent NO time handrubbing the blade before etching. He didn't even bother to use fine grit belts either. Those scratches were probably 120 grit or maybe even coarser.

It's little stuff like that, that makes the difference in quality to me.
 
Joss said:
Question: did you point that out to him??? ;)
Click to expand...

No Sir, I did not. My friend is very happy with his folder, and I was not going to burst his bubble.
 
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