How do you "sharpie" a nearly invisible bevel to determine angle?

[jalapeno]

I have a few japanese kitchen knives, and the bevel is so teeny that I can't really discern a bevel (with my old eyes anyway).

So, when using a guided sharpening system, pretty much any angle you draw a stone across the blade edge is going to remove the sharpie. It's too narrow to judge a top and bottom of the bevel.

For knives like these, do you just go with 15 degrees?

Some photos:

The thin white line is all the bevel there is.

Another:

Zoom of the above:

Even magnified, it's barely wider than a thread.

 

[jc57]

I freehand my Shun knives. I really don't know exactly what angle I am using. The factory edge is 16 degrees per side, according to their documentation. I try to follow that I suppose.

I use a loupe and a bright light to inspect the edge every so often to make sure I am getting to the apex and maintaining an even bevel.

 

[Gvard]

Since you're using a guided system, just pick an angle you like and grind until you have a burr on the other side. From there on, just follow all the basic sharpening steps. 15 dps should be ok for a general use kitchen knife. By the next time you sharpen your knife, you will know exactly which setting on the sharpening system you have to use.

 

[Lapedog]

I have a few japanese kitchen knives, and the bevel is so teeny that I can't really discern a bevel (with my old eyes anyway).

So, when using a guided sharpening system, pretty much any angle you draw a stone across the blade edge is going to remove the sharpie. It's too narrow to judge a top and bottom of the bevel.

For knives like these, do you just go with 15 degrees?

Some photos:

The thin white line is all the bevel there is.

Another:

Zoom of the above:

Even magnified, it's barely wider than a thread.

Alot of these Japanese knives do not have the wider edge bevel of western knives. Rather the entire blade is one giant bevel and they just put a microbevel for the edge.

 

[bucketstove]

Hi

How do you "sharpie" a nearly invisible bevel to determine angle?
I have a few japanese kitchen knives, and the bevel is so teeny that I can't really discern a bevel (with my old eyes anyway).
So, when using a guided sharpening system, pretty much any angle you draw a stone across the blade edge is going to remove the sharpie. It's too narrow to judge a top and bottom of the bevel.
For knives like these, do you just go with 15 degrees?
The thin white line is all the bevel there is.
Even magnified, it's barely wider than a thread.

Use a different color , green or red (or green) color marker , cause green is easier to see for the human monkey eyes?

A more fool proof (or blind proof) option is
keep raising angle and do edge leading strokes until the edge bites into the stone,
or newspaper wrapped around a stone,
or a popsicle stick or pen or pencil,
then lower angle a tiny tiny bit and thats your existing sharpening angle, whatever its number may be

Speaking of angles, 15dps is a "safe" angle,
and if you ask a chef/cook/culinary school,
you might hear what they're commonly taught,
for western knives sharpen at 20/22 degrees per side,
asian/japanese knives sharpen at 15 degrees per side
...

 

[postoak]

It's hard to see how they get such a narrow grind on a blade while using a small bevel angle. Anyone know how they do it?

Anyway, what I do is just do a 30 dps edge first which widens the bevel dramatically and doesn't look so great and then proceed to the 40 dps micro-bevel. I don't know if that would satisfy many but I'm more interested in my blades being sharp than looking good.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

It's hard to see how they get such a narrow grind on a blade while using a small bevel angle. Anyone know how they do it?

Anyway, what I do is just do a 30 dps edge first which widens the bevel dramatically and doesn't look so great and then proceed to the 40 dps micro-bevel. I don't know if that would satisfy many but I'm more interested in my blades being sharp than looking good.

IF they're doing it right, it shows how thin the overall grind is, of the blade; especially behind the edge. If the blade is really thin, and it should be for such knives, then the secondary grind at the edge should produce very narrow bevels, even at relatively low angles. It used to bug me to see such narrow bevels on knives, and some (most) of those are probably due to applying the secondary bevels at much too wide an angle, on blades of more typical thickness. But sometimes the nearly invisible secondary bevel is a good thing, the natural result of the blade's thin primary grind. Such a knife is born to be a great slicer.


David

 

[postoak]

Thanks, that is exactly what I was thinking. I see tiny bevels on hunting knives and assume they put some very wide grind on there -- probably so the knife will stay sharp longer.

 

[maximus83]

Yes as David says, sometimes the small secondary bevel is a natural result of a thin primary grind. Here's a Benchmade utility/hunting blade in s30v that I sharpened recently, the blade stock is around 0.140" at the spine, but the primary grind goes down to a super thin edge. So even with an estimated 12 dps edge I put on this guy using an Ultrasharp diamond plate, it's a very thin bevel due to how thin the primary grind is.

 

[gunmike1]

It's hard to see how they get such a narrow grind on a blade while using a small bevel angle. Anyone know how they do it?

Anyway, what I do is just do a 30 dps edge first which widens the bevel dramatically and doesn't look so great and then proceed to the 40 dps micro-bevel. I don't know if that would satisfy many but I'm more interested in my blades being sharp than looking good.

Do you mean 30/40 degrees per side, or inclusive? 30 or 40 degrees per side is so obtuse that I couldn’t imagine ever going with such a fat angle on a chopper, let alone a very thin kitchen knife. 15 per side with a 20 per side microbevel is more common, but on a thin kitchen knife that isn’t going to be hitting bones I’d start more in 10/15 per side range and adjust up or down from there depending on how the edge holds up.

 

[FK]

I use on both Spyderco folders and Japanese kitchen knives the following:

Wedgek Angle Guides 10° to 20° for Sharpening Knife on Stone
Google this product or search Amazon.

Strong light and 10X eye loop, this nails apex formation and wire edge, which is frustrating for newbees.

Regards,
FK

 

[Wowbagger]

Get a jeweler's visor. Put in the highest power / closest focus lens. You can add a loop that swings down. Works with glasses and is hands free.
I love those things; I have them at home and at work. For example at work I sharpen tiny drill bits 1.5mm etc by hand while wearing them.
Good stuff.
LINK <<<

 

[Wowbagger]

Yes as David says, sometimes the small secondary bevel is a natural result of a thin primary grind. Here's a Benchmade utility/hunting blade in s30v that I sharpened recently, the blade stock is around 0.140" at the spine, but the primary grind goes down to a super thin edge. So even with an estimated 12 dps edge I put on this guy using an Ultrasharp diamond plate, it's a very thin bevel due to how thin the primary grind is.

Now THAT's a knife !

 

[maximus83]

^It's sad, Doug Ritter posted that Benchmade quit making them the end of 2016. I've owned 2 of these, literally wore one out, this one hasn't been used as much yet. It's a tremendous S30v blade, I love the grind on these.