How do you suppose the new steels will affect Cold Steel's toughness rep?

J

Jamesh Bond

Joined
Jan 14, 2007
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I don't believe I've seen this discussed. Only recently considered the effect myself. Ive got a few theories, but id like to see what you guys think.

Thoughts?

Thx.
 
Wow. Seriously? There was even another thread complaining about the durability of a Recon 1.

Imma bump this once.

Thx.
 
According to Cold Steel's rep BD1 in the heat treatment Cold Steel uses is tougher than the AUS8 they used previously. XHP is harder than AUS8 and takes a better edge.
 
Personally I'm not worried about the BD-1 but the XHP has a reputation for being a very hard steel and I think everyone is concerned it might be more brittle than the softer but tough AUS-8. I think the XHP will be fine for most of the small to medium sized folders but I'm curious to see how it will hold up on their bigger blades. It would be great to see some back to back tests between the AUS-8 models and the XHP models.
 
Here's a portion of the overview on XHP quoted from Carpenter's website.

"(Nominal Analysis)
1.60 C, 0.50 Mn, 0.40 Si, 16.00 Cr, 0.35 Ni, 0.80 Mo, 0.45 V, Bal. Fed

Air hardening, high carbon, high chromium, corrosion resistant alloy which can be described as either a high hardness Type 440C stainless steel or a corrosion resistant D2 tool steel. Possesses corrosion resistance equivalent to Type 440C stainless but can attain a maximum hardness of 64 HRC, approaching that of D2 tool steel. Now available in strip product form.

This proprietary alloy is in the Carpenter CTS™ family of alloys that offer superior edge retention and surface finish, an ability to be machined to a fine edge, and consistent heat-treatability from lot to lot."

http://www.cartech.com/ssalloysprod.aspx?id=3710


It sounds like some pretty good cutlery steel. It'll be interesting to see how well the new knives perform. I just ordered the upgraded Recon 1 and look forward to running it through its paces.
 
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Mr.Tuesday said:
Personally I'm not worried about the BD-1 but the XHP has a reputation for being a very hard steel and I think everyone is concerned it might be more brittle than the softer but tough AUS-8. I think the XHP will be fine for most of the small to medium sized folders but I'm curious to see how it will hold up on their bigger blades. It would be great to see some back to back tests between the AUS-8 models and the XHP models.
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That would be cool, just to see.

Not really a fair comparison though.

My guess is AUS8 wins for toughness.

This thread seems to indicate this as well:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1283104-So-I-broke-a-Cold-Steel-folder-w-CTS-XHP
 
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Jamesh Bond said:
That would be cool, just to see.

Not really a fair comparison though.

My guess is AUS8 wins for toughness.

This thread seems to indicate this as well:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1283104-So-I-broke-a-Cold-Steel-folder-w-CTS-XHP
Click to expand...

Honestly I think batoning is a bit extreme for most folders but the knife could have been a lemon. I kind of wish they didn't discontinue the AUS-8 models but judging by the in house tests they do, the new models should still be more durable than most knifes on the market regardless of blade steel.
 
I think the question is a valid one - Mr T I think youre spot on, the knife could have been a lemon however if we see regular breaks then it definitely will affect the rep of CS.

AUS 8A cops a bit of flak round here comparing it to some of the other super steels but for me personally I find it good. I carry a Recon 1 regularly despite having plenty of knives that would be considered far superior in terms of steel and materials, the Recon 1 fits perfectly in my hands and I really like the ease of sharpening.

Im pretty average when it comes to sharpening and even I can get a hair shaving edge in just a few minutes with AUS 8A ... I have a few XHP knives and they definitely take longer for me.
 
One thing I don't understand about the steel changes is that they don't seem to take into consideration what the knife's intended purpose will be. I doubt many people will be using the black talon 2 as an edc blade so I don't really get why it needs the edge retention of XHP. The knife it's styled after is known to have it's tip snap off if used for moderate utility tasks so maybe the softer and possibly tougher AUS-8 would be a better choice. All of this is just speculation though for all we know cold steel's grinds and heat treatment could render any difference in toughness negligible.
 
Lemon or not, im still for AUS-8 for a knife to just abuse.

The intended use statement says it well. Cold Steel makes some of the few folders that can handle stupid abuse. Knife knuts know the nuances of why. The general public does not.

I think the upgrade is a response to the actual knife crowd. You know, people who want to actually cut things.

First thing i thought when i learned of the upgrade was thats great for me, but I wonder how many people who dont understand the steel differences where going to buy something with nicer steel, unaware that it wasnt going to have near the toughness of AUS8, then proceed to duplicate Proof.

And then bitch because their knife broke while batoning a brick.
 
Well I just bought my first cold steel, the ti lie 4inch aluminum model with the new steel. This thing came incredibly sharp out of the box. I don't cut open things with this knife, it is strictly a self defense folder. I have my sebenzas for daily tasks, plus they don't scare the sheeple that bad. But so far it seems like a very good knife and I have no problems with it.
 
Glad you like it. Cold Steel is awesome. I have a Master Hunter in Carbon V thats almost 20 years old. One of my all time favorite blades.

I wish they still offered Carbon V
 
How do so-called carbon steel blades compare to new-tech stainless steels? The high-carbon blades rust easier than stainless blades, but do high-priced supersteels equal or exceed the performance of cheaper carbon steels? I've seen the new prices of these knives with the CTS-XHP and I'm buying the cheaper AUS8A knives now while I can get them. It's not that I don't appreciate fine steels, it's just that Cold Steel's AUS8A has never been deficient. The other, cheaper, CTS steel might be worth looking at as it doesn't appear that much more expensive. One of my favorite knives is the CS Voyager XL Tanto. I like it because it's heavier, has a hollow-grind blade and it's stronger than the other Voyagers. Better prying tool and a superb chopper. I would hate to see the blade lightened to keep the price down but only time will tell. The new knives are a bit slow in coming out. Plenty of the old knives left and they're available at good prices.



CS Voyager XL Tanto has great chopping, prying and cutting abilities.

.
 
Stargater said:
How do so-called carbon steel blades compare to new-tech stainless steels? The high-carbon blades rust easier than stainless blades, but do high-priced supersteels equal or exceed the performance of cheaper carbon steels? I've seen the new prices of these knives with the CTS-XHP and I'm buying the cheaper AUS8A knives now while I can get them. It's not that I don't appreciate fine steels, it's just that Cold Steel's AUS8A has never been deficient. The other, cheaper, CTS steel might be worth looking at as it doesn't appear that much more expensive. One of my favorite knives is the CS Voyager XL Tanto. I like it because it's heavier, has a hollow-grind blade and it's stronger than the other Voyagers. Better prying tool and a superb chopper. I would hate to see the blade lightened to keep the price down but only time will tell. The new knives are a bit slow in coming out. Plenty of the old knives left and they're available at good prices.



CS Voyager XL Tanto has great chopping, prying and cutting abilities.

.
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Same here.;) I am trying to convince myself that I should pick up a med Vaquero, and a second large vaquero, before it is too late.
 
I have examples of all the Tri-Ad Voyagers, except for the combo edge versions. Combo edges aren't my thing. Clip, tanto, vaquero serrated and vaquero plain edge in medium, large and extra large.

The serrated XL Vaquero is my favourite.
 
Freman Bloodglaive said:
I have examples of all the Tri-Ad Voyagers, except for the combo edge versions. Combo edges aren't my thing. Clip, tanto, vaquero serrated and vaquero plain edge in medium, large and extra large.

The serrated XL Vaquero is my favourite.[/QUOTE]

Why? I'm thinking of buying a couple of these. Not sure about plain or serrated. Both have their advantages, but I too think you get the advantage of neither when buying combo edges.
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The shape mainly. I love that shape. If Cold Steel made a Recon Vaquero I would buy it. From cutting tests on YouTube the serrations make a heck of a mess when cutting into cloth or meat... so there's that.

I generally use a small knife like my Tuff Lite (also serrated) for common work though.
 
People who badmouth Cold Steel's serrations often don't understand their tactical advantages. I have an old Vaquero 6-inch with serrations and that's one scary knife. The long reach is accentuated by the knife's long handle, which makes the knife intimidation factor a solid ten out of ten. The recurved blade, coupled with serrations, may not be a good wood-working knife, kitchen or camping knife, but as a quick-cutting, intimidating self defense knife it knows few equals. I was in a local surplus store not too long ago and we were talking about knives and self defense. As we talked, in walks an employee reporting for his shift. The first employee explained that the second rode to work on a bicycle, then turns to him and said, "Show him what you carry." The guy reaches into his coat and pulls out a large Cold Steel. With a practiced flick, the blade appeared -- it was a Vaquero Grande 6-inch serrated model. I probably would have been more impressed had I not had an identical knife in my own jacket pocket! My point, of course, is that a serrated blade has distinct tactical application. No one wants to be cut with any kind of knife, but that especially goes for serrated blades!



Another favorite configuration of mine is the tanto blade. As can be seen here, the serrations could
be a real fight-ender!



Here's the company's 5-inch Vaquero.

.
 
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I have a few of the serrated blades. They're all scary sharp. It doesn't hurt that they're ground on what is effectively a chisel grind, so even the bits that aren't serrated are sharper than a normal vee grind.
 
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