How does CF compare to G-10/micarta?

CL01

CL01

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I'm not sure where to post this, but if it needs to be moved, then "Mods" please move it.

My question is does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc. on the durability of carbon fiber scales on knives. Are they similar to, easier, or harder to scratch or damage compared to G-10/micarta?

I've been told, by a knife maker, that G-10 & micarta's pretty much the same as far as durability, so how does CF compare?

Thanks in advance.
 
CL01 said:
I'm not sure where to post this, but if it needs to be moved, then "Mods" please move it.

My question is does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc. on the durability of carbon fiber scales on knives. Are they similar to, easier, or harder to scratch or damage compared to G-10/micarta?

I've been told, by a knife maker, that G-10 & micarta's pretty much the same as far as durability, so how does CF compare?

Thanks in advance.
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My experience is that carbon fiber scales are easier to scratch and chip than G-10 or Micarta scales.
 
I thought so, but wasn't sure. I think I've only had 2 knives with CF. One I didn't really use before I got rid of it & the other I just got, a Lightfoot Suppressor, which I just love.

Thanks again.
 
I doubt you'll

Ack, wrong button. As I was saying,
I doubt you'll notice any difference between G10 and CF.
G10 is defined by the spec as epoxy resin reinforced by layers of glass fabric.
CF is epoxy resin reinforced by layers of carbon fiber fabric. Most of the properties we look for in a knife handle are properties of the resin. Neither "CF" nor "G10" defines those, so the exact properties will vary by supplier. But you're still looking at epoxy resin. So from a durability standpoint: no dif.

"micarta" is layers of paper or fabric embedded in resin. The resin is not defined by the term "micarta". Finish is dependent on what reinforcement was used and how it was shaped and sanded.

Any of the three will have excellent durability as regards solvents and moisture. If you were going to pound on the handle with a hammer (:eek:), I think micarta would be more durable, especially if it is fabric micarta.

From a finish (slipperiness) viewpoint, that also will vary by maker and by finisher. It actually will vary considerably more than the other properties and will vary much more between suppliers.
 
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knarfeng said:
From a finish (slipperiness) viewpoint, that also will vary by maker and by finisher. It actually will vary considerably more than the other properties and will vary much more between suppliers.
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This is a big point. Spyderco alone has used four different CF finishes ranging from full glossy which is smooth, good looking, and easy to scratch, to "peel-ply" which is rougher than their G-10 and stays that way.
 
I find that they will scratch and chip easier then both micarta or G-10. But this really depends on what type or you could call it "grade" is being used. Except scratches but maybe not chipping.
 
Some great points made & thank you. As for the slipperiness, that really wasn't/isn't an issue. On that, it does depend on the goals of the manufacturer/maker, whether they polish it or not, etc. & doesn't really matter which material it is because all 3 can be polished, grooved, roughed, etc.

There are variables on the type of micarta, but I was looking for generalities. However, after thinking about it, I'm basically questioning whether CF will sustain a more permanent damage to it as easy, harder, or similar to the other material. I know that, if polished, one can fine sand any of the materials & put on some type of "finish" to it (Furniture polish, wax, etc.). So, I guess I'm asking if the structural integrity of CF is stronger, weaker, or similar to G-10 & lets say, canvas micarta.

While I may get a Spyderco CF Sage in the future, the specific CF knife I'm asking about is one of Lightfoot's Suppressors (Ti bolsters & CF scales).

Thank you.
 
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structurally speaking, carbon should be stronger. It's got the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any material than I can think of.

They don't make formula 1 race cars of of micarta or g10.
 
I've had a highly polished CF handle scale become scratched, and a small piece of it actually chipped off at the edge.

That's never happened with any Micarta or G10 on any of my knives.
 
chanwahyaoh said:
structurally speaking, carbon should be stronger. It's got the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any material than I can think of.

They don't make formula 1 race cars of of micarta or g10.
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Yes, but the strength is in the plane of the fibers. And the predominant strength is tensile strength.

You'll never see the difference in a knife handle. Most stresses on a knife handle are impacts and are outside the plane of the fibers. For stresses outside the plane, micarta will be stronger.
 
I accidently dropped a carbon fiber scaled gents knife. The drop was only about two feet on to blacktop pavement. Now the carbon fiber handle has a little divot out of it.
 
My carbon fiber photo tripod is nice and light. I've not noteced scratches on it but I've not banged it into rocks. I also didn't buy it for its looks.
 
Carbon fiber definitely shows scratches and will chip easier than G-10 or Micarta. I got a Lone Wolf T1 and right out of the box there was a scratch in the deep glossy CF scale. Using a different CF formula I also owned a Benchmade 690BC1-CF (what a knife...) and it didn't scratch easily, but there were tiny chips around every screw and pivot hole, I'd guess from drilling through the material.

On G-10, my BM 745 Deja worked itself out of my pocket and bounced off the ground in front of me and I could barely see anything...maybe it was due to the CNC machined finish on the scales, but I was pretty impressed!

Micarta seems to be pretty tough too, but unlike G-10, in lighter colors it will show stains and sweat from the hands will make it go darker.

A solution for either G-10 or Micarta is to bead-blast. I don't think it can be done with CF, it being so brittle. (That's just IMO!!)
 
CL01 said:
My question is does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc. on the durability of carbon fiber scales on knives. Are they similar to, easier, or harder to scratch or damage compared to G-10/micarta?
Click to expand...

chanwahyaoh said:
structurally speaking, carbon should be stronger. It's got the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any material than I can think of.

They don't make formula 1 race cars of of micarta or g10.
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Well, chanwahyaoh is technically right in what he said. However, if interpreted strictly along those lines, then his answer is a complete non sequitor. If interpreted a little more liberally, then it is wrong but addresses the question. In terms of rigidity, then yes, it is stronger. However, you don't want something like that for "hardcore" knife handles. Ceramic ballistic plates are made harder than steel, yet they aren't used for their wear resistance, because this is the aspect that matters. Similarly, you don't WANT something that is very strong and brittle for activities where abuse will be cumulative and not traumatic.
Zero
 
G10 --------> Micarta ----------> Carbon Fiber

Strongest ----------------------> Weakest
 
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chanwahyaoh said:
structurally speaking, carbon should be stronger. It's got the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any material than I can think of.

They don't make formula 1 race cars of of micarta or g10.
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CF is light, and has a high strength to weight ratio, but that don't make it strong. Steel is stronger, but has a crappy strength to weight ratio.
 
I think the issue is not the carbon fiber, but the binder.

Most carbon fiber uses a brittle binder as it provides a nice clear material - you can see the fibers. It is pretty.

Spyderco's carbon fiber as used in the Military seems more in line with G10 - I've dropped mine a few times and no apparent damage yet. If the binder used to make G10 were used with carbon fiber, I think it'd be a great handle material.
 
It all depends on the type of CF you're talking about. Some of it is very brittle, and will chip and scratch easily. Some of it is damn near indestructible.

It all really depends on the number of layers of fabric, the type of resin used and various other things.

G10 is a personal favorite of mine because the bead blasted G10 finish is highly durable, very grippy and light weight.

While CF is attractive, the price (when compared to other materials) is a real detriment. It's also one of the worst substances to work with, ever....


MT
 
Wow! Some great answers. Thank you. I don't suppose anyone's familiar with or knows about Lightfoot's CF, do they?

Thank you, again.
 
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