How does the Norton Economy stone/s compare to higher end versions?

B

Bob6794

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Apr 21, 2013
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I've had 2 Norton Economy stones for probably 2 weeks or so now and I have been quite impressed and have been practicing on them quite a bit. I have a 6x2 silicon carbide and 8x2 india. I have gotten to the point where I can get a knife able to push cut newspaper coming off the stone on all almost all grits, the exception being the coarse silicon carbide unless you felt generous in the term "push cut" as I couldn't do it in all directions and the harder direction had a tendency to rip or stop when it hit a snag. (Though from my experience not all newspaper is created the same, so I may or may not be able to do that universally, yet. Sharp none the less)

My question is how does these economy stones compare to the higher end offerings? Reviews comparing the two for the silicon carbide are scarce and I have heard nothing on the india comparison. All I have gathered is that the coarse is better somehow on the silicon carbide and the fine side is decently close between the two silicon carbides as well.

And does anyone know how something like a cheap craftsman tube of green compound compare to the higher end green compound. I know that my cheap compound is very hard and not exactly the easiest to spread onto paper or anything. I would also bet it probably doesn't have as much abrasive or precision for abrasive size as the higher end product but in real world use how does this match up?

Just some questions I thought I ask as the more I learn how to sharpen on these cheap stones and compound the more I wonder what the higher end offerings would give me. I have no intent on replacing my setup right now except maybe the compound in the near future as I am not a fan of the smell or how it behaves like a stupidly hard crayon. Too much untapped potential in the current set of stones and I wanted to know if the higher end versions offered more untapped potential.
 
The green Craftsman is not very good. In fact, they switched from the rectangular blocks a few years ago and now only their black is still a good product for edge work IMHO. Their old white is very good if you can find it, the new stainless is a pale grey in the tube and doesn't work well. The Ryobi white is very good for a finer polish, and their black is good too. The only green I've tried (aside from the Craftsman stuff) is the Formax "microhoning" compound sold at Woodcraft - is good stuff, pretty tight particle distribution from what I can tell. For a slightly more aggressive compound, Flexcut Gold has to be the champ (after my Washboard compound of course!) and well worth the few extra bucks.

The Norton Crystalon stones are noticeably better than the cheaper Econo stone, but not by a ton. Initially I thought they were the same but just smaller and not pre-oiled. The Crystalon cuts a little faster, a slightly finer finish. The coarse side is faster as well. Both will generate a grit that can be used as a stropping compound if you use them with oil - just mop it off the stone with a sheet of paper and wrap around the coarse side of the same stone.

I made a video showing how to do this with my Washboard - the theory and practice are identical on a stone. Though the WB will give a better result this is still a very effective practice on a combination stone, and the grit can work for a long time before choking. Makes a nice user's edge that is quite a step up from the edge straight off the fine side, comparable maybe to an edge off the black compounds.

I demo at about 10 minutes in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6Y2EMOQRLiA
 
Bob, I have a Norton India (IB-8) in your same size from 1980's USA made and it is finer than those I've purchased 6yrs. ago. My JUM-3 a coarse/ fine crystalline stone cuts any steel and I enjoy using it. Leaving a good edge and stropping takes it a step finer. This grit cuts quickly and I use it for stropping. This stone wear faster than the India. DM
 
I've been using a 6" Economy stone for a couple of months and like it quite a bit. The edge isn't as clean as my old 8" India fine gave, but certainly sharp. The main issue I've seen is the Economy stones have hollows on the fine side, making final sharpening a little trickier.
 
Yes, well put Me2. I like the edge coming off my old 8" fine India better than the edge with the new stone. Even though both are broke in it may be as you say, 'cleaner'. Or its a step finer grit.? I'm not sure. Still, on the newer India a good edge can be had. I go back and forth on the India and crystalline stones. I like the less wear and finer edge of the India and the cutting of the crystalline material. DM
 
I've seen that video you linked in the past HeavyHanded, it was that video and previous posts by you and David Martin and maybe one or two other people which convinced me to try the norton crystolon stone, I chose the economy version due to funds. Though from the sounds of it I think I will be more than good enough for awhile with that unless I want a stone to do more heavy reprofile work in which case I may step up to the JUM-4, figure the extra hand clearance gained from the additional height may be worth the extra cost over the JUM-3. You can call me crazy but I love how these 2 stones feel over my smaller 4in DMT's so I don't think I would pick up a larger diamond stone if I can avoid it as of right now.

I have actually tried capturing the grit coming off the stone and while it worked, the way I used it wasn't the most effective. Main issues were what I used to strop it on, and my technique. It's something I probably revisit latter.

Was afraid to hear my suspicions on the green compound were correct. At least flexcut gold is pretty cheap and it was the one I was looking at picking up. The question will be now do I pick up a lot of it at once when I buy it by itself or buy their strop + compound kit when the time comes as it's also pretty cheap.

@David Martin
I will admit I do love the india, it leaves a very nice finish for EDC. I love the crystolon for when I want a more toothy edge. I find I actually don't even use the coarse side of the india as I go coarse/fine on the crystolon than straight to fine on the india, it seems to work well from my experience.

@me2
I've noticed that the Economy stones were usually not flat and required flattening. My first india was defective and on one side had various grits and went from coarse/fine/coarse in a wavy pattern. Second india the one I am using now is good except the coarse side has a few small spots towards both ends where it's not really the same grit as the rest of the stone. Fine side has a few things imbedded in it which is harder than the stone so it makes finishing on it slightly trickier as you have to avoid it. The crystolon stone I spent 10min inspectin every single stone thouroughly at home depot to get the flattest one possible and it payed off, than I fine tuned it and used a piece of machined flat metal to check for flatness, only issue is that I accidently flattened it more at an slight angle so it's flat but not level but it still works great.
 
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Personally I wouldn't bother with the kit, and just pick up the block of Flexcut - will last a lifetime and you can strop on a sheet of paper or newspaper. Can also use it with a few drops of oil on a piece of oak and make some crazy sharp edges by lapping to refine the edge, and backhoning (stropping) to finish. Is a bit temperamental but very effective and very inexpensive. I cover it in another video...

If money is really tight, I'd revisit the reclaimed stone grit. Bust some off by scraping with the sawblade and mop it up. If there's too much oil for it to stay put reasonably well, put another sheet underneath and let it sit for a few or overnight. Can also lift some oil off with another sheet directly on top if its real loose. Wrapped around the coarse side of the stone you can get some great results, just make sure to get as much grit as possible, and not try to work with it if there's too much free oil. I went nearly a year using only this method and is capable of whipping up very effective edges.

In general, the edges off either of your stones can be taken up a notch by wrapping a sheet or two of plain paper around the stone (no oil) and stropping lightly with that. It doesn't do the best job of touching up, but right off the stone will noticeably improve the edge. Several ways to be content for a long time with either of those stones.
 
I am quite content with the edges I get off the strop with a 3x5 notecard with the green compound for now, but I already set myself down the path to getting the sharpest edge possible sadly. But it's skill that is holding me back not the equipment so I will work on that, I think I take your advice and pick up the block of Flexcut instead of the kit.

I think I pass on reclaiming the grit for now, I use water + dish soap and it seems that play an effect on reclaiming grit. It looked a lot easier with the oil you used in the video. Plus I still have my smaller 4in C/F/EF DMT's when I started with my aligner so it's not too much of a big deal if I want a more refined edge. After practicing with these bench stones my skill has gotten good enough that I seem to be able to use softer steels on the DMT's without difficulty now.


Added In (I got inspired by your post and stopped midway of writing to test something)

I just got around using an old mousepad paired up with some printer paper to strop on as well as newspaper, something I've been meaning to do for awhile. I cut up a mousepad to fit on top of the stone to elevate it and rolled the paper around it with some compound and tried it out and same with the plain newspaper. It knocked up the sharpness up another level or two :thumbup:. I tried using the textured rubber side for just now but I should give the smoother cloth side as well. Than maybe test it out on the stone again.

Added In (again)
An hour after making this post and playing around with using a mousepad and paper for a strop I am still getting far sharper edges and I can now say I have gotten a knife to push cut newspaper in all directions using the coarse side of the economy crystolon after taking it to strop on the sears green compound and newspaper :D. Just completed one of my goals I set for myself for sharpening. Still need to see how it does using the other side of the mousepad and trying to strop on just the stone with paper wrapped around it again though.

Another Add In
3 hours after the post, I found out that my angles for stropping were off slightly and have now started using the sharpie trick on stropping and my edges are now even sharper once I made that correction. It's a lot easier to do that now that I am using something that is firmly planted to something and won't be going anywhere unlike the notecard I was using prior.
 
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