How does the zt0551 compare to the xm-18?

[Followthehollow]

Just wondering. i've got an 0551, and have been drooling over the XMs for a while.

Basically I don't want to spend 350$ over what I paid for the ZT just to think to myself "I barely see a difference in quality"

So in your opinion, what elevates a real Hinderer above a Hinderer designed ZT?

 

[Noctis3880]

Simple answer, if you appreciate a Sebenza above other knives, you'll appreciate the XM-18 over the ZT 0551. The XM-18 is a bit more heavy duty with a thicker tip if you need to pry with it. Also, the finger grooves are more pronounced, so it has more of that "fits your hand like a glove" feel. However, I have some doubt as to whether or not a ZT 0551 can be broken by anything less than abusive use.

Rather than get bogged down by quality, perhaps consider the ergonomic difference between the two knives(for there IS one), and base your decision off that, and whether you happen to have a spare $500-$600 lying around:thumbup:.

 

[smithkzn]

Blunt answer: If you need to ask the question at all, then I'd say an XM-18 isn't for you.

 

[Thrill]

Here's my 2 cents. I kept hearing about how great the XMs were; all the good stuff about being heavy duty, fitting your hand great, fit and finish, handmade parts, etc. I had just started my knife addiction so I went for it and got a 3.5" flipper and non-flipper. I was very impressed when they arrived and thought all the hype was clearly justified. They are awesome knifes. I own a 0551 and it too is awesome, but not to the same level as the XM. In my opinion, you won't have worry about "I barely see a difference in quality".

The part you will have to justify is the cost difference because it is significant as you know. The great thing is that you can always sell the XMs if you don't end up liking them enough to keep and you'll recover your money. Can't say that too much about things you buy today with your disposable income.

 

[jasonp]

I don't own a 0551 but I own LOADS of other high end knives. I also own a XM-18 and can say without a doubt or hesitation, the XM-18 is the best built knife I own. Every bit of it "just fits me". I owned a ZT0301, it was built like a tank but it was a pocket hog and too heavy so I traded it off. I Owned a Strider and while it was a great knife, it too was a pocket hog and truthfully, it just didn't fit me, traded. I own a Spyderco Sage 2 and love the sleek "pocketability", buttery smoothness, locking mech. and blade steel. While the Sage is a great EDC, when I want something a bit beefier between the Sage and the Strider/ZT0301, I go with my 3.5" XM-18. It's soo smooth, built like a tank and is just far enough below the pocket hog category that it works perfect as EDC. If you have the money, the XM-18 is something you can pass down to your kids; its built that good.

 

[Biginboca]

After owning 5 or 6 XM18's and a few ZT551's I have no desire for the XM. The ZT holds its value every bit as good as the XM and is a great hard use knife. I have sold my XM's and am keeping an eye on the progress of the future ZT/Hinderer collaborations.

Keep in mind that people have to justify in their mind what they have spent, especially so at the price point of the XM which is equal to 3-4 great production knives. When you read commentaries from owners it may be hard for someone to be impartial when they have so much invested in a knife, and I am including myself in that too.

XM is a good knife, its not a $600 good knife though. I think even Mr H feels that way too because he doesn't price them at $600...

 

[neuron]

I have a few ZT 0551s and just this past week managed to score a custom (hand-ground by Rick) XM-18 direct from a dealer (i.e., no secondary market markup). Echoing what others have said, it's the best-built knife I own -- and that includes quite a few high-end knives, including CRKs, Striders, Greg Lightfoot customs, Kershaw Volts, etc. The ZT 0551 knife is a superbly built knife in its own right, but the XM-18 is just a step above it. I think Noctis nailed it when he said that if you see/appreciate the difference in quality in a Sebenza as compared to, say, other titanium framelocks, you'll also appreciate the difference between the XM-18 and the ZT 0551.

As with pretty much any move from high-end to even-higher-end, regardless of the type of product, you aren't going to see a linear increase in quality with price. In other words, a $400 midtech XM-18 isn't going to be twice as good (whatever, exactly, that would mean) as a $200 ZT 0551; the differences in quality that you're paying for will be more subtle than that.

Biginboca also brings up a good point about primary versus secondary market prices, and how that enters into considerations of value. I wouldn't have bought that Hinderer custom if it hadn't been direct from a dealer; I got it for not a whole lot more than the midtech version goes for on the secondary market. Of course, as with the decision about whether an XM-18/Sebenza is worth the extra cost over a ZT 0551/other titanium framelock, whether that markup is worth it is a matter for each individual to decide. Obviously, as indicated by the fact that the secondary market supports prices of $625+ for midtech XM-18s that go for $385 direct from Rick, there are plenty of people out there who judge that it is.

 

[Ankerson]

Obviously, as indicated by the fact that the secondary market supports prices of $625+ for midtech XM-18s that go for $385 direct from Rick, there are plenty of people out there who judge that it is.

More like there aren't that many around or being made and that's what is driving the prices way up and people choose to pay the inflated prices rather than wait.

If Rick ever turns up production the prices will drop like a brick right back down to what they should be so paying $625+ for a knife that is really worth $400 and will be.

They are still being made so paying the markup, that high of a markup really isn't the brightest thing in the world IMO.

That's not like waiting 5 years for a Randall or getting a Custom made and waiting a year or more to have a knife made to spec, those are justifiable markups.

 

[neuron]

More like there aren't that many around or being made and that's what is driving the prices way up and people choose to pay the inflated prices rather than wait.

If Rick ever turns up production the prices will drop like a brick right back down to what they should be so paying $625+ for a knife that is really worth $400 and will be.

They are still being made so paying the markup, that high of a markup really isn't the brightest thing in the world IMO.

I don't disagree with any of this. The fact that the $625+ prices are sustained by a combination of scarcity and impatience is perfectly compatible with what I said about people judging that it is worth that marked-up price. Of course, I'm sure that all of those people would rather pay $400 for an XM-18, but if their willingness to buy it at $625 is a guide to their preferences and valuation of the knife -- a standard view in economics (revealed preference theory) -- they're implicitly judging that it is worth the markup.

 

[Ankerson]

I don't disagree with any of this. The fact that the $625+ prices are sustained by a combination of scarcity and impatience is perfectly compatible with what I said about people judging that it is worth that marked-up price. Of course, I'm sure that all of those people would rather pay $400 for an XM-18, but if their willingness to buy it at $625 is a guide to their preferences and valuation of the knife -- a standard view in economics (revealed preference theory) -- they're implicitly judging that it is worth the markup.

Oh I know.

Some people choose to be smart consumers though.

Like the old saying "A Fool and his money are soon parted".

 

[jasonp]

Keep in mind that people have to justify in their mind what they have spent, especially so at the price point of the XM which is equal to 3-4 great production knives. When you read commentaries from owners it may be hard for someone to be impartial when they have so much invested in a knife, and I am including myself in that too.

Actually, I purchased mine directly from Rick at about $100 or so more than I paid for my ZT0301 and $100 less than what I paid for my Strider. So there was no justification needed. I also paid the same amount for my Busse as I did for my XM-18. I've sold or traded ALL but the XM-18.
I don't have a picture of my old strider but this is my XM-18:

The Busse I sold:

and a MUCH cheaper fixed blade I kept:

In short, price (for me at least) has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's fit, finish, function and (most of all) personal preference.
To the OP, if you really are looking to spend the money, you can always get your money back on high end knives like Hinderers, Sebbies, Striders, Busse's, et al. You can't go wrong buying one if it hits your fancy. Then if it turns out, you don't like it as much as you think you might have, slap it up on the for sale section here, get your money back and buy the other.

 

[Ankerson]

In short, price (for me at least) has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's fit, finish, function and (most of all) personal preference.
To the OP, if you really are looking to spend the money, you can always get your money back on high end knives like Hinderers, Sebbies, Striders, Busse's, et al. You can't go wrong buying one if it hits your fancy. Then if it turns out, you don't like it as much as you think you might have, slap it up on the for sale section here, get your money back and buy the other.

That's if you pay close to what the original price was, if not then most likely one won't break even if they sell it, even if it's NIB.

There are always exceptions to that rule, but never bet on it especially these days with the economy the way it is.

 

[Kaizen1]

You can make or lose money on any knife depending on what price you buy it at. If one is concerned about losing money in the case that one doesn't like the knife, one should pay attention to prices on the secondary market and buy accordingly.

 

[RevDevil]

I have never dismatled my XM-18s or my 0551s so I cannot speak to the precision of either knife in terms of measuring them with calipers. I can say that owning and using both knives, they are different from the steel to the ergonomics, to the overall use. The XM18 remains one of my all time favorite designs of all time. The 0551 is also one of the best ZT products ever made. Love them both.