So I got myself some 1084 from Aldo, laid out my pattern, band saw to rough shape, bench grinder w/hard wheel to better shape, files, sandpaper to final profile, cut in my plunges, scribed my centerline and started filing (no belt grinder.....yet!) My question is, how much of the bevel do you put in before switching over to draw filing? Also, when I am filing, do I run the file from choil to tip in one swipe or do you stay in one area and then move on to the next area and match it to your previous one? I hope this makes sense? One thing I am doing is being v e r y patient. If I run into a question or frustration, I just stop and simmer down or think things through. I see this new hobby of mine as a means of relaxation and almost a meditation! Thanks for all the help guys! You've been AWESOME!
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How far? Filing
- Thread starter PaMtnBkr
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For most of the shaping, you can mix and match the length and direction (cross or draw) of your file strokes in order to take material off where you need it taken off. I would switch to draw filing with full-length strokes only when you are almost at your target edge thickness, to get rid of the scratches running across the blade and to be sure it is a nice, flowing plane along the entire bevel.
Thank you Justin. I cut my initial bevel in at appx 45 degrees to establish my depth but I am now working my way up higher into the blade towards the spine. How do I woek in my distal taper? So far, I have a semi bevel along the entire length of the blade but the spine is still the same thickness as the original Pc of steel was at the start. Is the distal taper established during the draw filing process? Thanks again! Don
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Makers have different methods for the distal taper. I forge mine in, mostly. Some stock removers grind the distal taper in before they begin the bevels and others create it as they go. It is important to know what your plan is before you start removing material. If you scribe centerlines along your edge, that needs to be done prior to the distal. Personally, I don't scribe lines... I guess you could say I just follow the scent.
As for removing stock... do it the easiest fastest way you can. The pre-heat treat finish is when you need to start thinking direction and uniformity. I think draw-filing is the bee's knees for tweeking prior to HT. I'm not a skilled grinder.
Rick
As for removing stock... do it the easiest fastest way you can. The pre-heat treat finish is when you need to start thinking direction and uniformity. I think draw-filing is the bee's knees for tweeking prior to HT. I'm not a skilled grinder.
Rick
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There are different takes on how a distal taper should be accomplished. For my 2 cents, it only looks right if the bevels run all the way to the spine, terminating the flat that was the original surface of the bar, within a reasonably short distance of the plunge cut (assuming we are talking about a single edge blade here). The thickness will taper from this point forward.
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We are all newbies at sumpin', right? Thats the whole idea of shop talk... the sharing of knowledge. Put it to the test. If it proves to be useful, pass it on.:thumbup:
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distal tapers, sweeping plunges, tapered tangs, oh my
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They are 90 degrees to each other.
It's really helpful to brush out that file with EVERY stroke.
[video=youtube;U6_7drExBNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6_7drExBNQ[/video]
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- Dec 2, 2011
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I would describe cross filing as holding the file handle in your dominate hand pushing the file away from you into the material at a closer to 90 degrees to the work piece and draw file with the handle end of the file in the opposite hand away from you and pulling or drawing the file to you at a greater or lesser than 90. I work mostly from the choil to the point but keep in mind the file cuts less at both ends of the stroke and heavier to the center. I added a couple of pictures of the piece Im working on now and its all drawn I just really am not comfortable cross filing or it simply doesn't give me the same feeling of control and find it much harder to control my lines. Long full draws to define a line and shorter draws to work smaller areas along the line.
One tip.. don't file over debris I keep a brush in my hand and constantly dust off the debris and hit the file constantly with your file card. Don't wait until you create a very very ugly gouge that takes all the fun out of filing and a chip stuck in the teeth of your file will make a mess. INSTANTLY and UNFORGIVINGLY The thought makes my toenails uncurl!
I start and finish with the same file and I mark my file so the same side is always down and I a draw line on the up side of the file and keep my work under that line and avoid changing file length as the coarseness of the file is different from one length to the next . It makes it very hard to maintain symmetry from side to side. I like a 10' flat bastard for a 4" length and a filing area of about 1/2".
I dont want to imply Ive done a lot of knives. This is only my second kn ife but I use a file a lot in my gunsmithing making parts mostly cross filing and preping or removing pits from barrels that I am going to blue and its all draw filing. On a round barrel you create many minute flats all the way around the barrel running the length of the barrel staying at it untill the pits are gone then Emory across the grain then polish and blue. Those Ive done many of.
The only power tools I have used is the drill press for my handle and a belt sander and a scroll saw for the scales so it takes a lot longer but I love the feeling of the milling effect the file creates. As you can see the profile is very simple and there is not a lot of material to remove after the initial line or profile is finished. That takes a while.
This one is semi-finished (polished for heat treat 600 grit) on one side and Im about to hit the second side with the Emory and get it ready to HT. I still have to knock the edge off with a stone before it goes in the fire as its pretty sharp as is.
I keep my templates nearby and refresh my lines regularly (as needed). Also I use a piece of blackboard chalk and rub the file in the area I am using it seems to help to release the chips but does not mean it replaces the brush and card by any means. That part is ultra critical. Remember if you score one side and have to remove additional material the same amount of material must come off the other side or the blade will not be symmetrical.
Just sneak up on your lines and a sharpie will help you see where your at and patience is the name of the game (wish I had more). There comes a moment when you'll feel the need to step back and its time to lay down the file. Its not going any where.
One tip.. don't file over debris I keep a brush in my hand and constantly dust off the debris and hit the file constantly with your file card. Don't wait until you create a very very ugly gouge that takes all the fun out of filing and a chip stuck in the teeth of your file will make a mess. INSTANTLY and UNFORGIVINGLY The thought makes my toenails uncurl!
I start and finish with the same file and I mark my file so the same side is always down and I a draw line on the up side of the file and keep my work under that line and avoid changing file length as the coarseness of the file is different from one length to the next . It makes it very hard to maintain symmetry from side to side. I like a 10' flat bastard for a 4" length and a filing area of about 1/2".
I dont want to imply Ive done a lot of knives. This is only my second kn ife but I use a file a lot in my gunsmithing making parts mostly cross filing and preping or removing pits from barrels that I am going to blue and its all draw filing. On a round barrel you create many minute flats all the way around the barrel running the length of the barrel staying at it untill the pits are gone then Emory across the grain then polish and blue. Those Ive done many of.
The only power tools I have used is the drill press for my handle and a belt sander and a scroll saw for the scales so it takes a lot longer but I love the feeling of the milling effect the file creates. As you can see the profile is very simple and there is not a lot of material to remove after the initial line or profile is finished. That takes a while.
This one is semi-finished (polished for heat treat 600 grit) on one side and Im about to hit the second side with the Emory and get it ready to HT. I still have to knock the edge off with a stone before it goes in the fire as its pretty sharp as is.
I keep my templates nearby and refresh my lines regularly (as needed). Also I use a piece of blackboard chalk and rub the file in the area I am using it seems to help to release the chips but does not mean it replaces the brush and card by any means. That part is ultra critical. Remember if you score one side and have to remove additional material the same amount of material must come off the other side or the blade will not be symmetrical.
Just sneak up on your lines and a sharpie will help you see where your at and patience is the name of the game (wish I had more). There comes a moment when you'll feel the need to step back and its time to lay down the file. Its not going any where.
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Makers have different methods for the distal taper. I forge mine in, mostly. Some stock removers grind the distal taper in before they begin the bevels and others create it as they go. It is important to know what your plan is before you start removing material. If you scribe centerlines along your edge, that needs to be done prior to the distal. Personally, I don't scribe lines... I guess you could say I just follow the scent.
As for removing stock... do it the easiest fastest way you can. The pre-heat treat finish is when you need to start thinking direction and uniformity. I think draw-filing is the bee's knees for tweeking prior to HT. I'm not a skilled grinder.
Rick
Also scribing centerlines on edge and spine after forging a distal taper and bevels it's no so easy task...nor (for me) forging a dead flat/parallel ricasso to act as a reference. Is there a way to ease things up in this sense?
Thanks to everyone for all the great tips! I spent 3 hours last PM filing and using 60 grit Sandpaper to establish my distal taper. Getting the bevels in a bit as well. All of this is being done w/out any power tools. I have access to a LOT of odd size grinder belts and discs in various grits at work that are from vendor samples, or for tools we no longer have so I get some nice abrasives for free! This knife making thing is kind of addictive! Very good at teaching patience too! Funny to be learning patience at 51 years old! Thanks everyone! When I am closer to completion I will post pics! Don
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Well its my under standing is that a sharp edge isn't good when going to heat treat, i understand it increases the risk of distortion along the edge. Maybe someone will jump in and explain that part a little better and like you mentioned mine is currently sharp. I see increasing it to about .015" which will require very little. It could be done with a file and simply draw it down the face of the edge or using a medium or light grit sharpening or polishing stone (there are many grades or grits or coarseness of stones just like a file) run it lengthwise on the face of the edge like you were "unsharpening" it. You should end up with a flat about .010 to .015" flat.
.015" might be a little wide after its hard since I will be using a stone to resharpen it. I wont be doing any grinding or sanding so the wider the flat the resharpening might take a little more work. Knocking off the edge might not be the right way to describe what I will do, breaking the sharp edge may better describe it. Im going to shoot for a .010" - .012" flat at the edge.
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maybe some 320 or even a sharpening stone, rather than sharpening, dull it.