How far gone is too far gone? A noob question about poorly fitted hafts

[PrinceValorum]

Hey guys,

New to axes, and I've gotten some odd looks from friends and family over my new interest. The bug bit, and after doing some reading about which old brands were quality brands, I picked up a vintage double bitted Plumb.

The seller had blasted it, painted it (for some reason), and re-hung it. He asked me if I was planning to use it or hang it up for decoration. I wanted to use it of course, and I didn't realize (noob mistake) that he'd not done the greatest job of hanging it. It would have been fine for display, but not for use.

Anyway, this is how it now sits after a bit of use. Is this too far gone, or is it salvageable? How important is the shoulder underneath the head? If I needed to sand it down to re-fit the head, would that cause an issue?

It's a little bit hard to see here, but for some reason, this doofus took material off of one side only, so it the head isn't even on the shaft evenly...

I ordered a new shaft from House Handles, but if I can reuse this one for now and save that for a backup, I'd prefer to do that. Or is it not worth the time?

 

[Axe Master '94]

That from the guy on Craigslist near Chippewa Lake?

 

[Axe Master '94]

But yeah a new handle is definitely in order.... That old one is all screwy. Wouldn't use it. I'd strip that paint, too.

 

[PrinceValorum]

That from the guy on Craigslist near Chippewa Lake?

Uh yeah, actually. He was a nice guy. Small world, lol. It's probably the only green axe out there, though!

But yeah a new handle is definitely in order.... That old one is all screwy. Wouldn't use it. I'd strip that paint, too.

Alright, I feel better about preemptively placing my order, then. I wasn't sure when to call it quits, especially if this one might be able to be reused. I'll be taking the paint off, don't worry!

 

[BG_Farmer]

I would redo/reuse that handle, I think, as long as there was a bit of shoulder/swell left when done. Love the paint job for some reason.

 

[Bo T]

I'd try to use the handle that you've got. How does the rest of the handle look?

 

[smith357]

I would practice on the handle you have, if you can't fix it you will have learned things you can apply to the new handle.

 

[PrinceValorum]

Okay, I appreciate the feedback. I like the idea of using the current handle as a learning experience (and by that, I mean making lots of mistakes). If all goes well, I can just keep the new handle as a spare in case I need it someday!

The current handle, in my inexperienced opinion, looks great, other than being poorly fitted. The ad said it was hickory, and he said it was oak when I showed up to buy. I'd imagine it's hickory.

This was before I used it.

I don't think the grain gets a whole lot straighter than this.

 

[Axe Master '94]

Uh yeah, actually. He was a nice guy. Small world, lol.

Never would've guessed there'd be anyone on here that close to home!

 

[Bo T]

Get so Titebond III or Gorilla Glue or .... Square up the side that was butchered and glue a piece of wood in place. Then work at setting the head in place. I'd set the head a couple of inches lower. You should have some wood showing above the eye before you place the wedge in the kerf.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Looks to me like you've got a ton of shoulder left to drop that head down onto in order to find a nice tight spot. I'd like to see a shot of the wedge, but you'll likely have to cut the kerf/slot a bit lower then make yourself a new wedge. So long as he didn't use metal wedges it will be a simple matter of drilling the current wedge out, then pounding the handle out. If a metal wedge got involved it can be a little trickier when you want to save the handle.

 

[PrinceValorum]

Never would've guessed there'd be anyone on here that close to home!

Crazy stuff! I got to school in Akron, so we're not far at all.

Get so Titebond III or Gorilla Glue or .... Square up the side that was butchered and glue a piece of wood in place. Then work at setting the head in place. I'd set the head a couple of inches lower. You should have some wood showing above the eye before you place the wedge in the kerf.

That's actually a great idea, and I have Gorilla Glue, and plenty of wood scraps. I planned to set it so that it did stick up past the eye a bit. It just seems like that would hold much better if it mushroomed out a tad.

Looks to me like you've got a ton of shoulder left to drop that head down onto in order to find a nice tight spot. I'd like to see a shot of the wedge, but you'll likely have to cut the kerf/slot a bit lower then make yourself a new wedge. So long as he didn't use metal wedges it will be a simple matter of drilling the current wedge out, then pounding the handle out. If a metal wedge got involved it can be a little trickier when you want to save the handle.

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your view, as it may have prevented this in the first place) he didn't use a metal wedge, and the wooden one started working out in short order. I'll see what I need to do after I get it apart. I'd think it wouldn't be too difficult to rip a new/deeper kerf on the tablesaw.

Now I just need some time!

 

[Square_peg]

test.

 

[Bo T]

TABLE saw?? Kind of like using a sledgehammer to place thumb tacks.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Yeah I'd probably just use a hand saw - your only gonna end up cutting an inch deeper or so.

I don't personally go for metal wedges but my mind seems to be in a constant struggle over them. My mental narrative usually goes something like this;

-Lots of people use them, lots of "professionals" use them.
-Lots of hammers (old ones anyway) have serious taper in the eye like an hour glass and it's difficult to fill the top of the eye without somehow wedging in both directions.
-Even if they split the wood, even if the handle cracks, how many years or decades is it going to take? Especially on a well cared for tool.
-A wooden handle in my opinion, is consumable, cheap, and easy to replace.
-Obviously they create a wedging effect in multiple directions which sounds like a good idea.

On the other hand;

-Every hammer I've pulled the handle out of that came to me cracked is cracked from the metal wedge - every time - and in both directions in the case of metal wedges used parallel rather than perpendicular.
-I am confident that axes don't need them at all because the eye taper is easy to deal with.
-How many old time "professionals" actually used them?
-Are they really just a "safety liability" feature that companies use to cover their butts?
-I have factory handled tools with metal wedges that, when not cared for all that well, came loose anyway within a matter of a few years.
-In the case of hour glass eye taper I intend to try a "t" wooden wedge technique using 2 wood wedges - one parallel and one perpendicular - on my next project (most likely a hammer).
-Even if (in the case of hammers) there is a slight gap at the front and rear of the top of the eye, chances are that hang is going to last just as long as if I used a metal wedge and filled the eye. Of course the bottom half is tight regardless.
-When two metal wedges are used, they break the wooden wedge into pretty small pieces, particularly on hammers, which just feels counterproductive in my mind.
-Operating on the assumption that the handle is going to come loose at some point, it's much simpler to drill a wood wedge, rehang it on the same handle, then get back to work compared to digging out a metal wedge. If you got the tool with a loose head but a nice stick, this is great and you know that old dry wood isn't suffering from a crack induced by a metal wedge.

 

[PrinceValorum]

I used a chisel to remove the bit of wedge sticking up above the handle, after Bo T expressed concern about power tools.

Had to go back and drill many more holes... I have a new appreciation for how hard wood can wedge into small holes.

Now looking at it, I'm kind of concerned because it looks like since so much was removed from the one side, it's actually started to crack at the bottom of the kerf on the narrow side perpendicular to the grain, which seems like a big no-no. It was bowed in on the kerf pretty bad since the wedge only went down about 1/3 of the way, and you can see the hour glass figure of it still.

Is it still worth playing with this one?

 

[cityofthesouth]

Guess you could go either way but you sound leery and there isn't big money in a new stick, particularly since I was thinking you said you already ordered one. I think the peace of mind is probably more valuable than the handle, plus you could cut it up and use it to rehang a couple hammers or some other project. No biggie.

It was a poor hang. That huge shelf made by driving the head down would eventually rear its ugly head as a crack of some sort or another. Since I gather that is the side the previous owner was removing material from, it kinda makes me wonder if the handle is all lop sided or what - not real unusual today. Always tough to really tell in pics. Now, no good reason you couldn't hang it on that original handle just for the practice. Overcoming the problems would probably be an excellent learning experience. I have re-re-hung a couple of my own just because I can do it pretty fast now, and it really taught me how good my own work was. Then remove it and hang it on your new stick. I understand that this isn't an fun past time for some people like it is for me, so I certainly understand if it seems really pointless to hang it, then rip it back apart and do it again.

 

[PrinceValorum]

I think I'll actually do that, for the practice, like you said. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so having confidence in my skills so I don't mess up a good handle would mean a lot to me, I think. And that's a great idea, I might try to re-use this handle for a small hatchet that's about to have the head fly off any day now!

 

[PrinceValorum]

This fitting things by hand stuff is giving me a new respect for woodworkers 100 years ago. I'm missing my pneumatic tools already!

 

[Sharp_Canadian]

In all fairness it looks like 'doofus' only removed material on the one side so it would hang on a wall flat. Sweet axe though, like everyone else though I'd def strip that green off.