How good are the Kershaw Kai Shun Onions really?

That blade sweep on the paring/utility knife looks severely awkward.

-Cliff

My thoughts were that they are similar to the Grohmans which allow you to put a little more weight behind what you are cutting. I'm not sure if I'd like them or not. But a generous benefactor will allow me to use one in a passaround. Please see that forum for more info.
 
Much study has gone into the development of ergonomic grips lately, especially for kitchen knives. The grips tend to be angled down in relation to the blade to relax the required wrist angle, those blades have the opposite configuration. I have used some blades like that before, not as strong a slant though, and I found it awkward at best. There were some applications as it basically makes the entire blade act the the belly on a heavily upswept skinner but it is kind of hard to argue that is a general and versatile design. It would be interesting to read a direct comparison. I'll check out the passaround forum.

-Cliff
 
I just wanted to jump in here, and say that any given kitchen knife need not be versatile, since you can keep tons of knives in your kitchen, without worrying about it weighing down your backpack. :p
In fact, I believe the kitchen is where you would want the widest selection of knives for many different applications. (Not that I believe you need THAT many, but more just a couple)
 
I've handled the Santoku. Cutting wise I can only assume that it should handle much the same as my regular Shun Santoku. As for the handle it felt comfortable in the pinched grip or saber.

As for the Paring or Utility, they like they should be about the same.

I wonder about the strange angle. I know Alton Brown's Shun set featured angle, handled them in a store. Can't really say much as too how they work waiving one around at a shop.

I'm a fan of Mr. Brown's show and how he does/view a bunch of things. Only multi-tasker in the kitchen is the Fire extinguiher. As well as Ken work and skills. So I'm willing to bet that Mr. Onion and Mr. Brown have met, talked, and tried it out. I'm interested I see what others experiances area.
 
If I may ask Cliff, of what blades do you speak of?

You can see some examples of the type of blades here :

http://www.dexter-russell.com/Searc....asp&Type=259&Type_name=ERGONOMIC FISH KNIVES

Locally similar knives are used on fish but they were wooden handled and carbon steel. Most people didn't have many types of knives and so basically the same knives got used for everything and even the ones with huge upsweeps would be seen peeling potatoes and such which is awkward and working to a cutting board is near impossible.

On Knifeforums, long ago this was a frequent topic of interest in a general sense because McClung had the exact opposite viewpoint for his blades and had what he called a positive included angle which just meant the edge was on the opposite slope. He made arguements about cutting aggression when slicing and chopping using a shear viewpoint and Talmadge illustrated this to some extent with commentary on recurves which exploit the same principles.

It is also seen the same feature, but not nearly as strong, on tacticals like the WB, which I found awkward for a lot of utility use because you really had to angle the wrist to present them flat to a cutting board and materials would naturally tend to slip along the edge rather than be cut.

I'd be interested to hear the functional purpose of the design and feedback from users vs the more neutral angled blades.


Not that I believe you need THAT many, but more just a couple

You can never have too many knives. At the worse you just give the ones you have to use for the the guys that ask you for a knife and then use it to scrape the mud off of their boots. Try that for an edge retention test.

-Cliff
 
I own a Shun set many of which include the Alton brown style(2 santukos and a paring) I love em. The angle keeps your knuckles away from the board or whatever else your cutting agains. They hold an edge very well and sharpen nicley. Its awesome to have my VG-10 kitchen knives around. I say get one and see how you like em, I really like mine. They feel great in the hand.
 
I do all the cooking use and my Shun Santoku gets used maybe not daily, but every other day. Switching off with my Murry Carter.

I wish the bolsters and top edge were a bit rounded off, they are a bit crisp. But that's my only complaint.
 
Cliff, How are the knives you are comparing have any similarity to my Paring/utility knife? Have you used my paring/utility knife?
 
They LOOK a bit bizarre but if they fit your hand it might be fine. Shun blades are great as I have the AGRussell ones . Hands come in many sizes and shapes and fitting the handle to the hand means a lot for comfort and efficiency.
 
Cliff, How are the knives you are comparing have any similarity to my Paring/utility knife? Have you used my paring/utility knife?

They are similar in upsweep, I have used varying knives with angles more/less steep. I prefer the neutral ones and in general the japanese style utility knives over the western ones but that is influenced significantly by the type of foods cooked. No I have not used it which is why I said "looks awkward" in the first post based on knives I have used with a similar handle/blade angle.

What is the goal of having that severe an upsweep on a paring knife? How are you supposed to handle fine tip work when the point is so out of line with the blade, coring an apple, or making various small cuts in fruits and similar. Delicate tip cuts on a cutting board (finger on spine) would also be pretty awkward because it would require severe wrist rotation to present the point to the surface.

-Cliff
 
I have used some blades like that before, not as strong a slant though, and I found it awkward at best
No I have not used it which is why I said "looks awkward" in the first post based on knives I have used with a similar handle/blade angle.

Cliff you didn't say Ken's design, and the "similar" type knives you have used looked awkward in your first post, you said they were "awkward at best" when you used them. :confused:

Seriously Cliff, being that ergo's and comfort can be a subjective matter, and you have no authentic use of this or any of the Ken designed Shun knives, I find it difficult to believe you couldn't have left your disparagement of the piece off this thread.
 
Cliff you didn't say Ken's design, and the "similar" type knives you have used looked awkward in your first post, you said they were "awkward at best" when you used them.

My first post noted the blades looked awkward due to the severe slant. My second was responding to the issue of force control which isn't a subjective manner and can be discussed on principles of physics. FuriTech for example has done this from an engineering perspective to deal with physical stress disorders of the hand/wrist of professional cooks when using traditional chef's knives.

Seriously Cliff, being that ergo's and comfort can be a subjective matter

I was not speaking of the ergonomics of the grip but rather the relation of the angle of the blade to the handle and the effect it has from a force perspective, this isn't subjective. As noted I have used such knives of that size with a similar slant. As a side issue, ergonomics of the grip (shape related) are far from purely subjective so issues of complaints can not be so readily dismissed. If a grip had large square regions, or a boxy construction or a radically unsuitable taper, then similar points would be made, and have been made many times in the past.

The same goes with other issues such as suitability of steel (use of L6 for a fruit knife, or 440C for a sushi knife), or balance, etc. . When I posted recently about a knife I was looking at, Possum immediately criticised the balance without handling the knife and could have done so just from a visual inspection because the lack of tapers and full tang will produce a specific dynamic balance. If for example a member posted "How would this knife do for camp use." and suggested some tactical/fantasy knife, he would likely get a host of replies for why that would not be a good idea and almost none of the users would have actually have used that knife. However they would all have used similar knives and thus are making valid extrapolations.

Now if you accept in principle that posts of that nature should be allowed and in fact encouraged, as they always have been (Joe Talmadge himself has frequently made them for example) then the same logic holds for the post I made in the above.

I find it difficult to believe you couldn't have left your disparagement of the piece off this thread.

Yes, however if I had made a positive comment based on inspection or given attributes that would of course have been fine and encouraged. Do you really believe it is impossible for a person to have a perspective on a knife from a basic design. That is fairly absurd because it implies that the performance of a knife and its relation to geometry and steel is completely unknown. I guarantee I could show Joe a number of designs for small camp utility and he would give very accurate feedback without the knife ever being made. He has in fact made such generalizations many times in the past.

-Cliff
 
Back
Top