I finally decided to pick up a Boker classic folder, probably in carbon steel, as I'd been warned away from 440A being too soft. I understand that 440C has a higher carbon content. Plus, I beleive Boker hardens its 440C blades to a 61 rockwell, as opposed to 58 for the 440A. Would the 440C be worth getting instead? I must say, stainless blades would be nice...Thanks!
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How good is Boker's 440C?
- Thread starter Old Knife Guy
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
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- 2,639
440C is a very good blade steel. The hardness difference is not really all that significant. The 440C blade will hold an edge much better than the difference in hardness would seem to indicate.
Do not get hung up over Rockwell hardness measurements. It is not useful to compare different blade steels. For example, assuming all were RC58, I think you would find wear resistance for these 'stainless' steels in something like this order (least to greatest): 440A--->4440C--->ATS34/CPM154--->BG42---->420V/S90V
There would be a several fold difference in edge holding between these steels and yet they would all be equally 'hard'. Hmmm. Interesting, no?
There is a sort of optimal hardeness for each steel that achieves a balance between edge holding and toughness (resistance to chipping). Some steels can achieve and work well at high RC values (61-63). Some can not. Some steels are difficult to resharpen, more so than the slight in increase in edge holding would seem to justify. Many manufacturers seem to emphasize RC values more than is helpful. Pushing the RC higher does Not necessarily make the steel a better knife. Even at the same degree of hardness, the differences between different steels would be apparent to the user.
Although I love carbon steel knives, I agree that stainless blades would be nice. That's why my daily carry knife is a trim 3 inch flat ground blade made of 420V by Mastersmith PJ Tomes, with stainless bolsters and pearl scales in a mid-lock configuration. Not having to worry about rust makes me very happy to carry and use this knife.
Go with the 440C blades. It is a better blade steel!
Hope this helps. Your question sort of begged for a pedantic response
Paracelsus
[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 11-26-2000).]
Do not get hung up over Rockwell hardness measurements. It is not useful to compare different blade steels. For example, assuming all were RC58, I think you would find wear resistance for these 'stainless' steels in something like this order (least to greatest): 440A--->4440C--->ATS34/CPM154--->BG42---->420V/S90V
There would be a several fold difference in edge holding between these steels and yet they would all be equally 'hard'. Hmmm. Interesting, no?
There is a sort of optimal hardeness for each steel that achieves a balance between edge holding and toughness (resistance to chipping). Some steels can achieve and work well at high RC values (61-63). Some can not. Some steels are difficult to resharpen, more so than the slight in increase in edge holding would seem to justify. Many manufacturers seem to emphasize RC values more than is helpful. Pushing the RC higher does Not necessarily make the steel a better knife. Even at the same degree of hardness, the differences between different steels would be apparent to the user.
Although I love carbon steel knives, I agree that stainless blades would be nice. That's why my daily carry knife is a trim 3 inch flat ground blade made of 420V by Mastersmith PJ Tomes, with stainless bolsters and pearl scales in a mid-lock configuration. Not having to worry about rust makes me very happy to carry and use this knife.
Go with the 440C blades. It is a better blade steel!
Hope this helps. Your question sort of begged for a pedantic response
Paracelsus
[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 11-26-2000).]
Old Knife Guy
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I bought my brother, a non-knife guy, a fancy Boker top-lock with mother-of-pearl inlays. I slicked it up on the Edge-Pro before I gave it to him. He may not have much of a point of reference, but he says it's the sharpest knife he's seen. He continually carries it in the vest pocket of his three-piece suits. Periodically I ask if it needs a touch up, and he claims it is still cutting.--OKG
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
Just to confuse things further, one of my favorite production knives is a Boker 280 pattern three blade whittler with Carbon Steel blades. I wanted carbon steel blades for this knife because I think this is a superior steel for a whittling knife. It does have a tendency to stain, pit, and rust if I don't keep it oiled or waxed. I just spent the last thirty minutes cleaning up some rust spots that developed in the last six months or so since I used it last. Have to remember to clean things more carefully in the future before putting them aside
Paracelsus
[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 11-26-2000).]
Paracelsus
[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 11-26-2000).]
thanks so much, Paracelsus! I'll go with the 440C. I was just thinking(a dangerous habit, I know), the rockwell test is the penetration of an industrial diamond into the stee. So maybe it really only measures the strength of the bond between the fibers of the steel? that seems to support what you're saying. hmmm....and thanks again