How hard are the Calypso Jr. (AUS-8) and the Bill Moran (VG-10)?

C

Cliff Stamp

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I am guessing 56-58 for the Calypso Jr., and a little higher say 58-59 for the Bill Moran. Am I close?

As well, what is the cost to Spyderco of VG-10 vs AUS-8, how much does it add to a knife to have VG-10 over AUS-8?

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 18 August 1999).]
 
Cliff, my Spyderco mini-catalog (1998) shows Calypso Jr (C52) at RC=58-59 and for the Moran (FB01) it shows RC=60-62.
 
I'm not sure what the hardness is... Sal can probably tell us. But I know my Calypsos have VG-10 blades, and I like them much better than the AUS-8 . I guess it's a personal preference.
 
Longden, thanks for the info. Updated the specs listed.

Excalibur :

[AUS-8 vs VG-10]

I guess it's a personal preference.
Click to expand...

Yeah, do you or do you not prefer a better blade material. The results between comparing the two are significantly different :

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000760.html

Unless the VG-10 in my Moran is weak and chips out easily which I find out later this week, it seems to be a much better steel than AUS-8.

-Cliff
 
What would also be interesting is a test of the forthcoming Calpyso Jr (VG-10) against the current AUS-8 version. Matching geometries (I believe) and therefore less variables to account for, aside from the steel types.
 
Longden, very interesting. I might pick up a VG-10 version since my brother keeps asking for my AUS-8 one.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I wasn't stating that AUS-8 was better, I believe I stated that I preferred the VG-10.

More of my Quote:

"I know my Calypsos have VG-10 blades, and I like them much better than the AUS-8 . I guess it's a personal preference."

The "personal preference" that I was referring to was the fact that some people prefer one steel over another.(different strokes for different folks)

I believe my preferance was in line with yours.

Your comment, "Yeah, do you or do you not prefer a better blade material" ... well I guess I clearly stated that I preferred the same thing you do.


 
Longden - thanx.

Cliff - the VG10 is more expensive in original purchase as well as all of the processes to make a blade. So the overall cost is higher. I believe, and our tests concurr that VG10 has beter edge retention and better corrosion resistance than AUS8. We found that VG10 will go Rc63 and still work well.

The new lightweight is a very nice piece. I don't think it will be as popular as the Delica (the choil seems to be for the more sophisticated, read; fewer).

The Calypso (large) is also a very nice piece with VG10, but sales did not warrant continueing with the model.
sal
 
Something very interesting:
after a lot of testing, I concluded the following:

The edge of my Calypso jr (in AUS-8) does indeed go away faster than my AFCK (in ATS-34)

BUT with the softer AUS-8, usually the edge just "folds away" or uses its alignment, so you can "steel" it back together to about 80-90% of the original performance, using a smooth steel or even the rim of a glass, or the edge of a car window. Remember, you don't want to hone the edge, you just want to push the edge into alignment again.

On the contrary, the ATS-34 keeps cutting a little longer, but it gets dull due to the edge wearing away. When it gets dull, you need to hone it properly.

Costas
 
Cliff - We've only tested edge retention and corrosion resistance at this time. What do you mean by "durability" and how would you test for it?
sal
 
Sal, for most smaller knives I am not that concerned with gross durability as in breaking the blade in half but more so in the ability of the edge to resist the stresses of cutting harder materials or accidental impacts off of material that should not be attempted to be cut.

If you took a piece of ATS-34 and made a blade out of it at 64 or so RC it would cut paper and such for a long time as it compressability would be very low and its abrasion resistance would be very high. Eventually it would blunt leaving hopefully an evenly worn down edge that can be sharpened with little difficulty.

However would you want to carry such as a general use utility knife? I would not as the durability would not be there. Imagine you are cutting a box and run across a part of a broken staple, the blade will suffer damage as its impact toughness will be very low compared to an ATS-34 blade at 58-59 RC. Now you have to try to sharpen a blade with the edge damaged and that will take quite a while without power tools.

How would I test it? I will be doing this shortly, either this week or the next, on the Spyderco Bill Moran, and Calypso Jr., some ATS-34 and VG-10 knives from Fällkniven and some customs in CPM-10V and D2. I may even have my INFI blade by then.

Basically I will be cutting some materials that will stress the edge laterally by offering significant resistance to being cut. This generally means that I have to use a fair amount of force which means that the blade will twist and then what should be just compressive forces will shear instead and act to damage the edge.

Currently I am still gathering materials as I want a large enough supply so I can do a high enough number of cuts on each blade so that each recieve a similar level of stress. Currently I have a decent amount of : wire (in a large variety of guages from very small circuit wrapping wire, various cords and even fairly thick wire used in device building), thin light metals (from light to heavy foil wrapping, AL cans, some tin and light sheet metal), graphite rods, bone and some hard woods.

I will do some work cutting the harder materials and examine the edges visually and the do some cutting on softer materials like ropes, cardboard and such and see how the performance is degraded.

I am still not sure what materials I will be cutting as some might be too severe, and even the method of cutting, so I need to do some test work before I compare the blades in detail.


-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 20 August 1999).]
 
Cliff - Read the results of your last test. Very intersting. We'll have Patrick on line here in a few weeks (Patrick is our metalurgist). Perhaps between you and Patrick, me and the forumites, we can come up with a standard (acceptable) test.
sal
 
Just to throw in my $0.02 on comparing VG-10 and AUS8:
I work my Moran hard....probably harder than any knife I own since I use it as a camp knife and until I got my Catcherman the other day as my salmon fillet knife. This is what I notice after working it hard this last week:
-The VG-10 in my Spydie Moran has some small chips on the cutting edge. I was able to reduce them by using my Lansky and Sharpmaker but the chips, particularly at the belly are stil there. The knife is still sharp and very usable though. There was some small areas of surface oxidation on the mirrored finished when I pulled the knife out of its kydex sheath earlier this week (I loaned the knife to a friend for fishing/camping and he didn't clean it probably) but it was removed easily by some metal polish. Kodiak can be tough on knives with about 100 inches rain per year and I would imagine I may have damaged the bevel slightly cutting thru fish bones and all. Still, I feel I can count on this knife.

Now my AUS8 blades such as my CRKT M16 are very easy to sharpen but I notice I lose the edge rather quickly when I am working it hard. The pay off is that it sharpens very easily and gets razor sharp in no time. I haven't worked this knife as hard as the Moran but I haven't noticed any blade chipping.

Edge retention IMO goes to the VG-10 and out in the woods or on the river that is what I want even with the little chips but I will say that I was somewhat surprised this last week at how fast the knife got dull after filleting 6 or so pink salmon. The knife was very sharp right before the fishing trip. Can the chips on the edge make the knife dull faster? I would like to hear some opinions on that. Cliff, what do you think? Ease of resharpening goes to the AUS8. At this point if I go into the woods I will take an additional knife with 440v or BG42 since I want to count on its edge retention but that is another story.

Bottom line: The Spydie Moran is a good knife for the price and very versatile. It can skin, fillet, shave wood...all in a neat little package. AUS8 blades are very easy to maintain and even though they seem to dull faster than my Moran I still find them as a useful tool.
Regards,

------------------
~Greg~




[This message has been edited by Kodiak PA (edited 21 August 1999).]
 
Sal, glad to hear it.

Greg :

Can the chips on the edge make the knife dull faster?
Click to expand...

Anything that reduces cutting ability will effect edge retention, the two are very strongly correlated. A knife that cuts well will suffer much less strain than one that cuts poorly and thus wear much slower.

-Cliff
 
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