How hard is it really?

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Sep 9, 2007
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The more knives I get, the more it occurs to me that maybe it's a whole lot harder to make them than I ever imagined. Either that, or I'm just way too picky and expect way too much.

So, does anyone know how hard it really is to make a flawless slipjoint?

Would you tell us about it please?
 
Way Hard!!!!! Ask Tony Bose.... He's the only one that I know who has even come close, and some how I bet he might even say other wise!

Ask me that question again in 35 years... If the Lord lets me live that long ;)
 
How hard is it to paint a flawless portrait? I suspect DaVinci would give you a different answer than most folks. For that matter, some folks will tell you that "flawless" is the domain of God alone, and we mere mortals are not welcome there. Personally, I try not to knock the craftsmanship of others unless I'm certain I can do better. I've built enough things to have some idea how much work would be involved, and I know my first few hundred attempts would turn out uglier than the worst crap that ever escaped from Pakistan. If you really want to know, try building one. Don't bother heat-treating the blade or any of that, just try making one that looks good.
 
Flawless is subjective. A beater to you may be flawless to me and vice versa. Is it flawless in use or flawless in appearance? To me flawless is unattainable and would you want it anyway? Once used or sharpened is it still flawless? It is all in the eye of the beholder.
 
Personally, I try not to knock the craftsmanship of others unless I'm certain I can do better.

I don't think this is a valid standard. A person doesn't have to be a master mason to see that a brand new brick wall is crooked as a dog's hind leg.

But, it sure looks like Brent has a real good handle on making slipjoint knives. :cool:
 
I've never tried making slipjoints, but I've done some frame-, and liner locks. Believe me, it ain't easy.

Fair play to them that can...
 
Flawless is subjective. A beater to you may be flawless to me and vice versa. Is it flawless in use or flawless in appearance? To me flawless is unattainable and would you want it anyway? Once used or sharpened is it still flawless? It is all in the eye of the beholder.

precisely.
I know people to whom any knife that cuts would be flawless, that a lack of an edge is the only flaw possible for a knife.

And i know people who can find flaws in anything (myself included, sometimes).
 
I made one. Turned out perfect and decided I should never try again.
It was one of those wood kits...present for my daughter's 2nd birthday. :)

Seriously, though, I can't even imagine how hard it would be.
 
I would have to say it is very difficult. I am overly critical of things though, so what may be perfect to you, may have flaws and imperfections in my eye.

I have been a perfectionist for many years. I've been working on changing for many years too. I have finally come to terms with the fact that nothing is perfect though.

When I was building race cars, and painting show cars, I would beat myself up mentally over the tiniest things. Things that no one else would ever notice...

I have never tried to make a knife, but I have built enough things to see that the making of a slip joint is complex, and time consuming. Especially on patterns that have multiple blades.

I'm not bragging, but I have a talent for making things. That said, I'm honest with myself, and know that if I tried making one, it would be years before I made one that was even decent in my eyes. It would be far from flawless though...

When you look at knives that are mass produced, like Case, I would say they do a very good job, especially considering the time they have for each knife.
They are priced accordingly though. For 50 dollars, you are not going to get a perfect knife. But then again, for a 1,000 dollars or more, you still probably won't get perfection...

We are fortunate enough to have some great slip joint makers here. When you look at the level of quality of their knives, and the price they sell for, I would say they are an outstanding buy. I don't know exactly how many hours they have in each knife, but I would guess they are far from getting rich.

There are a few makers that are at the top of their game, and their knives command a very high price. Are those knives really that much better than some of the ones you can get for 3-500 dollars ? No doubt there is a difference, but I don't know, because I don't own any. You reach a point though, where the name itself brings a much higher price.

When I look at the knives that these makers have made, I can truly appreciate the talent, patience, and passion they have put into them. I think it is more a labor of love for these makers than anything...


YMMV Sorry for rambling :D
 
I made one. Turned out perfect and decided I should never try again.
It was one of those wood kits...present for my daughter's 2nd birthday. :)

Seriously, though, I can't even imagine how hard it would be.

Haha, I bought two of those wood kits for my son (3 1/2) and nephew (5) for Christmas. I hope we can pull off flawless fit and finishes. :D
 
Haha, I bought two of those wood kits for my son (3 1/2) and nephew (5) for Christmas. I hope we can pull off flawless fit and finishes. :D

Dude, my girl loved it. And she opened it very carefully (she likes to play with my knives and we are REAL serious about safety...she can't open mine, but we talk about it)...so anyway, she opens it perfect, looks at the blade, and then tested the sharpness by shaving some arm hairs. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.
 
IIRC, the old Sheffield master cutlers would partially or fully assemble/disassemble a 4 blade knife at least 15 to 20 times during the process of final fitting, crinking, swedging, and tuning of all the blades and tangs and their action and adjusting the springs and fitting it all together into something like a knife. And this is with all the bits and pieces ready for them to work on -- they didn't forge the blades, or do the initial grinding, or heat treat them, or forge and grind and heat treat the springs, etc. Even after they were finished fitting it all together, there was a lot more that had to be done -- all the hafting, shaping and turning it all into a real knife (final polishing too, but that wasn't done by the master cutlers).
 
How hard is it really?
The more knives I get, the more it occurs to me that maybe it's a whole lot harder to make them than I ever imagined. Either that, or I'm just way too picky and expect way too much.

So, does anyone know how hard it really is to make a flawless slipjoint?

Would you tell us about it please?

I'd guess it's a lot harder than you imagined, unless you are familiar with the intricacies of precision machining to say nothing of understanding what it takes to figure out a workable design and then bring it into reality.

Having grown up using mass production knives myself, I'd also guess you are way too picky.
 
If it was easy, I'd be doing it. But it is not easy and my hat is off to those guys that do make them and the production companies as well. We have a very talented group of makers that visit us here on the forum and I am regularly awestruck at some of the knives they have shown us and by the forum members that have shared images with us like Blues and Bastid and Charlie and Greg and all the others.

I guess one of the reasons that I like traditionals more than modern knives is the knives seem to me to have more class.

Ed
 
To quote a talented knifemaker:

"If it was easy... All of the girls would be doing it."
Knifehead

Something like that. I remember Kerry saying once that making knives has a lot of "Dangits!"
 
The number of people who master their art or their craft in knife making, engraving, oil painting, etc, ad infinitum, is microscopic, percentage-wise. When we bow down in awe to Bose, Erickson and so on,there is a very good reason for it. Yeah... maybe it is a little "hard!"
 
Recently I sent a knife in to its original maker for a little fluff-n-buff. This well known maker made the knife only a couple of years ago. He surprised me when he said that he did several things to correct percieved "flaws" in the knife that were really bugging him. Now nothing to my untrained eye stood out as wrong, but this makers keen eye picked out things in his earlier work that he wanted to make perfect. Thats the level of skill and desire for excellence that impresses me with our custom makers.
 
Forget the tooling and cutting the components; just buy you a $10 junker and take it apart and put it back together... That should get you one step closer to understanding just how much time a person "can" put into the process.
 
The more knives I get, the more it occurs to me that maybe it's a whole lot harder to make them than I ever imagined. Either that, or I'm just way too picky and expect way too much.

So, does anyone know how hard it really is to make a flawless slipjoint?

Would you tell us about it please?

On a small scale, it's not hard at all. Just look at the stuff turned out by the custom guys. But you're going to pay for the time it takes to do that.

On the other hand, the commercial folks don't have the time. They need to only satisfy the 7 or 8 out of 10 people who just want a small cutting tool in their pocket. I suspect that 80 percent of the knife market can be aimed at the Ford and Chevy buyers, as there's just not that much market for the Bentley class of stuff. Most people don't even carry a knife these days, and they the ones who do are happy with a 5 dollar gas station special or a sak from the big box store. People like here on this forum are the small number exeptions.

How flawless does it have to be?

Most people who do go through the trouble of getting a knife to carry, are going to use it. It's going to be cutting everything from twine to wire stripping, to scaping mud off their boots to just opening mail. It's a tool, and they don't care that much as long as it looks "good enough" for them. Sometimes after a year of ownership, the knife looks like its been through a war. After a few years, the knife has a broken blade from abuse, or is just beat, or even lost, then the guy goes and buys another one. And he's not going to spend a bunch on it either. To him, the knife is in the same class as a 1.99 screwdriver.

Then you have the sporting crowd. The hunters, campers, backpackers and such. They don't care about flawless either, just that it works. Whole generations of hunters have been happy with Shcrade sharp fingers, Case little finn's, and folding knives of every sort from Shcrade Old Timers to Buck 110's and stockman's. Moderate price knives that dress that deer just fine. Hordes of backpackers and campers have bought a sak and been happy with it for years. If it got lost, they went and bought another just like it. It did the job, and that's all they cared about. It was good enough.

That's most folks.

Then there's the obsessive knife knut.

He's way way different than most people who buy a knife. He's got an obsession so deep that the knife becomes a cult worship item. It's not just a tool anymore. But they don't need flawless finish either. Give them a blade that been tumbled or bead blasted to cover the big flaws, mount it a molded zytel or other synthetic handle, give it a dangerous name or get it used in an action TV show or video game, and they'll que up in line to spend their burger flipping money on it. A far from flawless knife. Don't believe it? just go over and read some of the posts on the general forum. Jeez, actor Mark Harmon uses a certain knife on a TV show, and 50 posters go nuts, wanting to go buy one.

Then you have the collector who buys a factory pocket knife, and then complains about a 1/16th long little rub mark on the back of the main blade. Never mind that this is a 30 something dollar using pocket knife, and the factory can only spend just so much time on it before loosing money. If he'd just drop it in his pocket and use the heck out it, he'd be happier. He'd be happier because of concentrating on the little rub mark, the knife would be covered in wear marks from good normal use, and then he'd have great memories every time he'd pull his knife out, of the flawless performance that his knife had given him over that time. Keep it sharp, keep it clean, and many many years from now you'll have flawless memories of all the things your knife cut in the way of being a cutting tool. It would have become an old friend, working companion, and a treasured item, in spite of having some flaws.

The truth is, for about 85 to 90 percent of the knife buying masses, the knife does not need to be flawless, so the knife companies just make sure they are 'Good enough" for most folks.

Carl.
 
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