How important is a creative blade shape to buyers/collectors?

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
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I am asking this because I would like to make a medium size fighter before my next more art oriented knife.
Looking at blade shapes I like and I know work (like knives from Jason or Nick for example) I wonder how much time and energy I should really invest in trying to come up with a better blade design. Not that I think I can really. :o I said try cause I am pretty much 100% sure it won't really be better in the end and most likely the small visual changes I make would likely make it less effective. Plus I have no experience using a knife this way and no way to test except the regular stress tests we do.

So for more traditional types of knives (not talking the more artsy pieces here), are you looking for creativity in the blade or more so in other parts of the knife, like handle, guard, etc...?

Thanks
 
Pat

When it comes to any knife you need to first decide its primary use and than try and design a blade that will excel at this use

Weather it be a fighter or a skinner

Than you need to see how specialized it will get

Example

Some skinning knives can be as drastic as an Ule while others would be more like a paring knife with a fine tip for caping

Or you can do a compromise of both and get a standard looking knife with a bit of belly and some tip for fine work

The same goes for fighters

Some would expect a fighter to be svelte and easily concealed which means not a large guard etc

Fighters are many things to many people

For me what says fighter is a smaller guard than a fighting Bowie would have a sharpened clip and a blade that would index well in the hand

The most important characteristic that most ignore is putting some type of distal taper in the blade. This facilitates the fast feeling that I demand in a knife like this

Another is the carry system

This might be the most important aspect of all
 
Thanks Joe, I know I can always count on you to help. :thumbup:

So since I know that I can't design a better fighter or skinner for example, I would be better off using an established design and trying to add my personal "visual" touches?

Never thought about designing the knife with the carry system in mind. I always thought about that once the knife was finished. :o
 
For me, it depends on the type of knife.

For a fighter, the blade shape is obviously key but I'm not necessarily looking for creative. I'd rather have a clean, tried and true shape to lay a good foundation and then get the creative juices flowing when it comes to the guard, handle, hardware etc. Of course someone else may prefer an out of the ordinary blade shape with traditional fittings. C'est la vie, eh?

I second Joe's position on distal tapers. Quick in the hand and more comfortable in my experience. Its one of my favorite features as well.
 
Thanks Evan. A good, solid, tried and true base makes a lot of sense and that's what I am hoping most people are looking for.

Of course, I have the luxury of also being able to do "art knives" where I can go outside the box on blade shape too. :D
 
Patrice Lemée;13354038 said:
... I have the luxury of also being able to do "art knives" where I can go outside the box on blade shape too. :D
Click to expand...

I find I'm typically most receptive to unusual styles if there is an obvious advantage posed by the design in at least one potential area. Claudio Sobral's use of sandwich steels with bold styling comes to mind--useful blades with dramatic styles that are very easily identifiable as his, with no readily apparent drawbacks, and with a blade composition that is both innovative and enhances looks and performance. Some of the khukuri styles we've seen on this forum come to mind, like the Knight/Paranee khuk, implementing a more conventional "Americanized" handle shape with a blade somewhat elongated from the conventional khukuri style--very compelling. Nick Wheeler's recent piece for a UK client, as well--salivated heavily for that one. Blades with different grinds blended tastefully into the shape can be very handsome and useful, such as convex primary grinds in the point area and chopping sweet spot, blended with hollow grinds nearer the choil/ricasso. When such innovations become styling cues, tweaked to enhance the flow and character of the blade, I can get excited very quickly.

On the other hand, there are styles that are very useful that don't do anything for me visually, such as most of the "cleaver" styles seen in cutting competitions these days. And there are cosmetically attractive designs such as sub-hilts that to me have obvious downsides--as grip versatility is compromised in my mind, in the case of subhilts. But obviously many cleavers and subhilts are being made and sold these days, so I have to assume I'm outside the mainstream on both these styles. To me this illustrates that you can either go for something that pleases a broad spectrum--typically a conventional design proven by use--or you can go for something very compelling that appeals so strongly to a few that you will get a huge chunk of their business. The real trick I think is to find something unique that appeals to a broad range of buyers, and that probably means putting a lot of styles out there to see what sells. When I look at Claudio Sobral's work over the past few years, I see many, many examples of knives I'm not crazy about but a few that really grab me. And I've noticed many others here on the forums seem to like the ones I like. He seems to successfully guide his design development toward an increasingly broader segment of the market, while retaining a style all his own--pretty much the best of all worlds, I think--might be said of other successful innovators, as well.

Don't know if this helps--I know it's a bit of a ramble. Just trying to put some fairly fluid thoughts into words.
 
Good post Will

Will brings up great points about edges

Edges designed to do different tasks

God edge geometry and balance are key

Sure I like some embellishments in the handle and sheath but a pure well thought out blade that emphasizes performance and a well done handle that orients in the hand and is secure mated with a slick vary system will get my attention every time out

Examples :

Maringers Vorpal series

You can't go wrong if you start with a good Bowie style or Persian style blade IMHO

Some Asian designs are great bases also
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that most collectors and/or buyers are not looking for creativity of any kind.
 
It depends on your marketing strategy. If you are happy with a few hundred users buying 1-2 knives each, and you enjoy making the same knife over and over again, then there is no need for additional creativity. However, if you want those same customers to each buy many more knives, you will have to give them a reason to do so.

n2s
 
Lorien said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that most collectors and/or buyers are not looking for creativity of any kind.
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I think I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree. But I do think that "not looking for creativity" doesn't mean that a blademaker can't inspire those same buyers with his/her creativity in a way that compels them to buy. In other words, they may not be "looking for creativity" but that doesn't mean they won't appreciate and buy it, if it pushes their buttons successfully.
 
there is a reason why the pairing of the words 'starving' and 'artist' happens.
 
Lorien said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that most collectors and/or buyers are not looking for creativity of any kind.
Click to expand...

Maybe so. But put me squarely in the minority, then. Many of the makers whose work I admire and strive to collect . . . folks like Schmidt, Walker, Steinau, Loerchner, Fuegen, Warenski, Esposito, Steigerwalt, Lerch, Hendrickson, Newton, Hale, Sfreddo . . . and so many others . . . are extremely creative, IMO.
 
I think many specific designs had been explored up till now, becoming wonderful pieces everybody recognize in the intended use.
Some very ugly designs survived as well, wonder why? maybe they serves the intended purposes perfectly!
Every curve, plane, taper in the tools serve a specific concept applied to the real use...some details may be left to the interpretation.
If i had to think about a fighter design, i'll remove the heel, or at least try to avoid to make it prominent and square to the edge...not to get tangled within opponent dresses [ how gruesome example ;) ]
So IMHO it is difficoult to pop-up with the new design for an ancient tool without appearing kitch, but we can propose our way in the field of optimization, and tailoring into specific niches.
I'm not talking about embellishment or fine artsy pieces, but about shape-function. There is always room for personal taste, but a knife is really a simple tool.
 
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Knives055.jpg

pic from J.Paranee.

p1000520.jpg

Pic from Unforgiven.

Voila, Patrice.
 
I think that bowies and fighters are a good place to experiment with creativity around blade shape and find out if you can develop a style or niche, since the chance of them receiving extended use is often not that high. On the other hand if you are designing a chef knife their is much less room for creativity because there are fairly strict parameters in which the knife will work correctly and comfortably over the course of an entire shift.
 
Thanks again for all your input.

I'll put all this to work. One fighter coming up! (Just remember though, I am slow. ;))
 
I just spent a while yesterday browsing through Coops photos.
There were a number of beautiful knives that would not be practical as users.
But they were still very appealing. Not the sort of knife Lorien would use out in the woods bushwacking.
But my impression was you are asking about a collectible art knife not an every day user.
To my way of thinking anything goes as long as the shapes have a good flow and balance and the materials are complimentary.
I say make what you like. Just because you can.
 
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