How important....

[reconseed]

...is having a Tomahawk or hatchet in a survival situation vs. lets say, having a survival knife? can one trump the other or do they both serve separate purposes in your opinion? This is something interesting that I was wondering...

 

[Cliff Stamp]

There is a large overlap between a quality hatchet and long knife, each tends to do better at certain things and which one is truely optimal depends on enviroment and user experience with the tool. A good version of either in the right hands would pretty much eliminate cutlery as a survival concern.

-Cliff

 

[jca21]

through personal experience i would rather take the knife over the hatchet. but remember that this is only on a personal level. i've been in many situations where i've only used a knife to survive/camp/hike for a few days.

i would say to have a hatchet will make your life alot more comfortable. you can always split wood by batoning with your knife or you can start a split with your knife and finish splitting it with wedges and a heavy stick used to driving them in and complete the split.

but it will generally depend on what situation your in IMO.

if you need to hike long distances then weight might be a factor you have to consider. weight vs comfort ratio to me would leave me with a strong knife rather then a hatchet.

keep in mind that a hatchet can be just as versitile as a knife in the correct hands. i've seen many people skin game with a sharp hatchet as well as whittle pegs and nails.

also what will the weather be like in the situations your going to be in? if its cold and wet you will need to be splitting copious amounts of firewood to keep warm and comfortable. this doesnt mean you can do the same with a knife.

do u carry a tent with you? or some kind of sleeping system?

if not i'd assume you need to build a shelter to keep yourself dry and protected from the elements.

so i would say. take both if you can.

knowledge doesnt weigh a thing so if you possess the knowledge to make things in the wild such as wedges to split wood. then i would say you can take one or the other. if not i'd say take both just to be safe.

there are also light weight axes and tomahawks which are widely available. i prefer taking a gransfors brusk wildlife hatchet with me combined with a fixed blade such as my SOG seal knife. the seal knife came with a tactical sheeth in which i have placed a two sided stone so i can sharpen both the knife and the hatchet on the go.

btw... what kinda of places will u be travelling? or is this just a hypothetical question?

 

[coote]

This question comes up a lot, and I think about it often myself...and I still don't have a totally satisfactory answer.

Fortunately it is not difficult to take both. A spare blade of some sort is always a good idea whether it is in the form of an axe or a knife.

This is a hypothetical situation, but here is my current thinking....

For long term wilderness living I think a hatchet is a superior tool. If I could only choose one steel tool to take with me into the bush it would be a decent axe or hatchet.

For general travelling and to cope with emergencies I think a strong fixed blade knife is probably handier. It would be better for defence against animals, cutting lines you might be entangled in, prying things open, quickly preparing food etc etc etc.

And just when I had things narrowed down to a choice between a hatchet and a knife, I recently procured what I believe is an ex-Vietnam war military Golok....which is neither a knife or a hatchet....but it looks mighty handy.

 

[ghostguy6]

I prefer to carry a small machete with me. I live in Alberta canada so it has some uses up here that a hatchet can not fill. The machete has also filled various other uses other than cutting. I have used it as a flipper for burgers, used it as a snow knife for building snow shelters. You can also use it to cut wood. Believe it or not but a sharp machete can cut down at tree faster than a hatchet because the blade material is thinner and cross cuts ( against the grain) much better than a thick hatchet. I have even used a machete to clean a fish ( just to prove it could be done ) The hatchet does have the advantage of splitting wood as well as making a good hammer. As others have said a hatchet does have a blade that can be used for other things but to me a machete is more useful in my opinion.

 

[coote]

Lots of folks would probably agree with you Ghostguy. Machetes seem to have been the cutting tool of choice for a lot of people who live in the wilderness. They are a better weapon than a hatchet as well.

 

[shotgunner11]

I really like a machete also. Tramontina bolo right now paired with a small fixed blade or folder.

I've never taken to a hatchet, mostly because of a total lack of skill. I really suck with them, poor aim under any sort of power, glancing all the time, tearing up handles. On the other hand, I think of myself as fairly good with a large blade, I handle them fairly well and never bother to get any better with an axe or hatchet.

 

[GibsonFan]

There is a large overlap between a quality hatchet and long knife... either in the right hands would pretty much eliminate cutlery as a survival concern.-Cliff

Man, this is a classic thread! I agree with what others have said. You surely could do quite well with any of the tools mentioned on its own. I bet kukri fans would have something to add to this, too.

I currently own a fairly large tomahawk, a 9 1/2" bowie, and a 4 1/2" drop-point fixed blade. All three have served me well. Although I'm beginning to think of replacing the 4 1/2" knife with a smaller one...

If I could carry only one in the woods, it would definitely be the bowie, because it does all of what the other two do, nearly as well, and is a much more effective weapon than either, at least in my humble hands. I would be nervous about not having a back-up, though.

Forced to abandon my romantic notions of slaying bears and savage marauders with a bowie and carrying strictly for utility, I would bring the hawk and the drop-point.

Generally I bring all three. And there's always a folder of some kind in my pocket... the weight of another good knife or two is worth it, in my opinion. Did I mention back-up?

I've never taken to a hatchet, mostly because of a total lack of skill. I really suck with them, poor aim under any sort of power, glancing all the time, tearing up handles.

I feel the same way about machetes... I just seem to be clumsy with them. Millions of people all over the planet have done just fine with them, though.

Believe it or not but a sharp machete can cut down at tree faster than a hatchet because the blade material is thinner and cross cuts ( against the grain) much better than a thick hatchet.

Good point, but if one takes a reasonably thin-bladed 'hawk or hatchet and spends an afternoon "feathering" the cutting edge back, (my little term for a sort-of-convex edge) the cross-cutting ability improves dramatically, and you still have the weight of the tool behind it. Not knocking machetes at all, just throwing in my $.02 for those who like to fiddle with their knives/tools and make them a little better I admit I have not yet successfully flipped burgers with my bowie :/

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...if one takes a reasonably thin-bladed 'hawk or hatchet and spends an afternoon "feathering" the cutting edge back

Yeah, you want to compare well optomized versions of both tools. A nicely sharpened machete vs a stock hardware store axe is like a Bruks Wildlife vs some tactical abortion of a fixed blade, it is rigged comparison.

-Cliff

 

[GibsonFan]

Yeah, you want to compare well optomized versions of both tools. A nicely sharpened machete vs a stock hardware store axe is like a Bruks Wildlife vs some tactical abortion of a fixed blade, it is rigged comparison.

-Cliff

You're quite right, and another side of the coin is, given a choice of a generic machete vs. a generic hatchet, the machete will be the better $ value by far and likely be sharper off-the-shelf. Even if the machete is dull as all get-out, it will be much easier (quicker) to sharpen it satisfactorily. Then again, it will be much more likely to simply break. (These are generalizations! Please take them as such.)

I'm the type that actually enjoys sitting down with a new, reasonably-priced tool and a desk full of stones and making it sharp. I only mean to further illustrate that all the tools mentioned in this thread are really quite versatile, and the choice is up to the user. Criteria should certainly include whether you're willing to tweak it for best performance, or want it at its best out-of-the-box.

BTW Cliff, I find this especially interesting, since reading your posts has gone a long way in helping me understand the proper edge-geometry for various tools, and the significant performance improvements that can be had with a bit of forethought and elbow-grease.

 

[Triquetra]

My choice is a Khukuri. For me this is the best of both worlds. You have the chopping ability of the hatchet and the cutting of the knife. Granted you might be giving something up on both ends, or maybe just the knife end, but you have a do all tool in my opinion. You might visit the HI forum here in Bladeforums for more info.

 

[pict]

Add me to the machete camp. If I had to pick one steel tool it would be a machete provided I could also take a small file.

I have never really taken to the hatchet as a wilderness tool . Here in Brazil it would be dead weight. They are fine tools for their purpose but just too limited in general application, at least in my hands.

I use a machete to butcher deer. The last time I did this in PA got some really strange looks, as if I was going to go Conan and start hacking away. The machete can chop out bone as easily as a hatchet, plus you can just pass the blade up alongside the ribs and neatly separate the front legs in one easy cut. It's just a big butcher knife in that role.

Clearing ground for campsites is easier with a machete. Hatchets are useless for vines, creepers, thorn bushes, grasses, weeds, etc.

I dig stuff out with my machete all the time, it does not destroy the edge as the tip is already blunt. If I get a ding in the blade I can file it out. The most damage I've ever caused to a machete was while cutting through a grove of dry bamboo.

One problem with much of the discussion about "which is better" is that we tend to focus on the wilderness as an individual endeavor, one man alone against nature. If you have a friend (if you don't you need to work on that) then you can easily carry whatever tools you may need.

Since landing here at BF I have really taken to the folding saw. If you really want to save yourself some weight and elbow grease get a saw. Not much romance in a saw but cutting seasoned wood with one is far easier and less abusive on the joints. That is one big drawback to the machete. If you need to cut alot of dry wood you end up taking alot of impacts to the wrist and elbow and that can give you problems. At 18 you won't know it but at 41 the next day could be less enjoyable. Mac

 

[Codger_64]

While I do own saws, axes, hatchets, and a machete, none play any role whatsoever in my wilderness experiences. I have never seen the need. I do use them all here around the farm where tending fencerows and woodlots is my lot in life. But in the wilderness, I prefer to allow nature to take it's course, and use what deadwood is available for my projects. Any live plant materials I might need are generally small enough to be handled with a moderately sized sheath knife which weighs ounces, not pounds. I hate coming up to a campsite and seeing the work of Nimrods with a "tool-toy". I am not of the "I have it so I need to use it" school of outdoorsmen. Clear a campsite? Leave the native plants alone and find a clear place to camp. Don't blacken rocks just to make your firepit more like the ones in the books. Turn over rocks you have blackened, and cover your firepit. Tread lightly upon the land.

Codger

 

[Kevin the grey]

Codger ? In principal I agree with you . You are a practical man and being so wish to have a practical low impact campsite .

I think others have differing perspectives due to their upbringing . It takes some people more time to acclimatise themselves to the woods . You may consider it romanticism or someone not on the right path . (I do not presume to speak for you. )

Some people may wish or require a higher comfort level or at least a semblance of comfort . As far as a tidy low impact site ? Thats a work in progress for me .

Tomahawk or work-knife ? I would have a few tools with me . It may be considered inexperience on my part . That is a given to me . I have never set up a woodland camp off of a camping site . Your words will be given due thought and will certainly impact on my way of thinking .

 

[tknife]

If you are unfamiliar with using a hawk or hatchet, it may be much safer for you to use a large knife. Also the area you are in with be a factor. A hatchet out in the dessert may be of less value than heavily wooded mountains.

 

[runningboar]

I agree completely with Codger 99% of what I do in the out of doors is done with my pocket knife or a small sheath knife. One thing I constantly hear about is knives, saws, axes and hatchets being used to chop or break the pelvis of big game, why? I take the hams off at the joint and have seen no need to preak the pelvis. On a big hog or large deer it is sometimes hard to get through the sternum to facilitate rapid cooling and to ensure that all of the chest cavity is clean but I have never not been able to do it with a modest folding hunter or sheath knife.

I very rarely camp in camp grounds or established camp sites but, where legal, make my own off the beaten path and one thing that annoys me to no end is to see trees chopped on and trash every where. I use down wood almost exclusively and use a small bow saw for firewood if needed, IMO it is much quicker and safer than chopping with either a knife or hatchet.

I do sometimes carry my grandfathers old carpentry hatchet but mainly use it to drive tent stakes, and I used to use it to cut and drive trap stakes.

 

[Ravaillac]

My main doubt about machetes (and big knives) has always been: "Why such a long edge?":

When you chop, you use the upper part of blade.
When you whitle, you use the lower part.

I 'd say the only use that actually takes benefit from that long continuous edge is brush/campsite cleaning and al.

For any other tasks, I'd say the long edge is uselessly dangerous and annoying. Sure you can go with it but why bother unless you have some "brush cleaning" need.

About axes, I like a lot being able to grab the tool at different lengths of handle, or being able to use both. I always miss those when I use a machete. That is a lot about habits of course.

Many people state machete are quicker or more efficient cutters then axes, even on wood, although depending a lot on both axe and machete considered, that might actually be true. But I think axe is still more comfortable (read more energy efficient, and less dangerous under stress) to use.

For me, I'd take machete only in a setting where brush cleaning is necessary, and I'd take an axe in cold weather setting (for shelter building, and firewood).
In moderate climate, I'd say a small knife is Ok, I generally find enough dead wood for a good-enough debris shelter: I carry an axe but I'd easily recognize that most of the time I don't actually need one.

And by the way, I consider an axe, a "small large axe", or "long hatchet" like GB SFA. Hachet aren't as useful while not being significantly lighter (as most of the weight is in the head anyway).

 

[Codger_64]

I did not intend to "diss" anyone who prefers to carry and use different tools than I. My outdoor habits are a product of several long influences and beliefs. I grew up on a farm where we were THE stewards of the land, and learned first hand that what you do to the land can come back to haunt or bite you. Then I had some training, the crux of it being to live and travel without leaving a trail, signs of even passage, much less temporary occupation. Then later, in soul searching, I studied the ways of the native ancestors, and of European decents who moved into and through the wilderness.

You see, Western thought leads us to try to overcome nature in order to survive, not to be a part of it. Aboriginal thought maintains that only by being an intimate part of nature can we succeed in survival. We each choose to what degree, and in which ways, we as individuals wish to be a part of, or apart from nature.

To the extent possible, I prefer to embrace it as a friend, not fight it as an enemy. No, I am not a vegan. And I don't worship nature (the Creation), but rather the Creator, Allmaker as he is called by some, and respect his creation (Nature). There is no mystic Eastern religion in it for me.

Codger

 

[Kevin the grey]

Codger some of the Celtic religions lean towards getting along instead of overcoming . When they came over here they found their beliefs to be reflected in aboriginal beliefs .

It is of interest to me but may not be discussed in the general forums .

B:T:W: No diss felt . You most always always express yourself in a relatively even tempered/handed fashion .

It is more that it is common with me to see things from as many points of view as possible . I do think your post was important . I still would like to have a semi permanent camp where woodcraft would be practiced . While it is a heavier impact than your method it at least uses a renewable resource and is not a use it and lose it attitude .

 

[woodsmoke]

I have found that a big knife is more useful than a hatchet, (handle under 18-19 inches), in most situations. A knife is also safer to use. A knife like Razorback's Tusker or my re profiled Western Cutlery Bowie can do anything a hatchet can and still clean game, butcher, whittle, carve, you name it. An axe that can be swung two handed is a different story. Now serious wood cutting enters the conversation.