How is "solid brass" handle made? / Hidden pins handle construction

[Alex.Y.]

I always wondered how the handle halves are attached to each other in knives with seemingly solid brass handles, like the Rough Ryder on top:


I mean, it is interesting to me to know specifically do they have regular brass pins which were polished to merge with handle surface, as it is usually made on bolsters?

Or there are pins integrated in one scale (like tommy pins on bolsters), and some seats (?) for them in the other scale, and while put into each other in the process of assembly there's some pressure or pounding implied after that wich makes such pins deform inside the seats and hence hold the handle halves from inside?

 

[screened porch]

I think those Queen Barlow aluminum handles were cast in one piece.

 

[Alex.Y.]

I think those Queen Barlow aluminum handles were cast in one piece.

And there's a blade pin clearly visible, but no spring pin! Wonder how they inserted it there?

Pic from the net:

 

[screened porch]

This is the one I was thinking of.

I looked up the patent number once, but I've lost the knack.

 

[yablanowitz]

On the Queen, the spring is inserted into its place from the front (blade channel) side, then the blade is inserted, compressed and then pinned in place, holding the spring in. On the Rough Ryder, I don't know as I've never handled one, but usually they are simply pinned together with brass pins, sanded flush and polished to match.







Edit to add: forgot to include the picture of where the spring hooks into its pocket at the butt.

 

[Alex.Y.]

This is the one I was thinking of.

I looked up the patent number once, but I've lost the knack.

Ah, I see. Never seen those before, very interesting, thanks!

On the Queen, the spring is inserted into its place from the front (blade channel) side, then the blade is inserted, compressed and then pinned in place, holding the spring in.

Thanks! Now I see, same inserted spring technology as in Douk-Douk.

On the Rough Ryder, I don't know as I've never handled one, but usually they are simply pinned together with brass pins, sanded flush and polished to match.

That's what I was thinking but hoped to confirm, if someone had and experience with RR.

 

[ea42]

The old school knives like this Schrade Cut co had solid brass scales and brass pins to hold everything together like a conventional knife handle. There were also "skeleton" knives where the knife was put together with the liners only, then hollow handles were clipped over the liners and held on place with tabs or sometimes a shackle with with e through pin. If you can't see the faint outline of pins on the Rough Rider it might be some type of skeleton construction. Can you see a seam inside the knife where the cover meets the liner?




Eric

 

[Alex.Y.]

The old school knives like this Schrade Cut co had solid brass scales and brass pins to hold everything together like a conventional knife handle. There were also "skeleton" knives where the knife was put together with the liners only, then hollow handles were clipped over the liners and held on place with tabs or sometimes a shackle with with e through pin. If you can't see the faint outline of pins on the Rough Rider it might be some type of skeleton construction. Can you see a seam inside the knife where the cover meets the liner?


View attachment 2377793

Eric

Thank you for the information, Eric!

I understand now that I expressed incorrectly in my original post, sorry! Brass covers on that knife actually serve as liners, but it wasn't with me at the moment I started this thread and my memory played a trick on me. It is not solid, it has a steel backspacer.



Strangely enough, I don't see any sign of pins, while they tend to always expose themselves after a short time on the bolsters of my other knives.

 

[Modoc ED]

 

[yablanowitz]

Inserted from the back? Looks like old Eric liked doing things the hard way.

 

[yablanowitz]

Thank you for the information, Eric!

I understand now that I expressed incorrectly in my original post, sorry! Brass covers on that knife actually serve as liners, but it wasn't with me at the moment I started this thread and my memory played a trick on me. It is not solid, it has a steel backspacer.

View attachment 2377809

Strangely enough, I don't see any sign of pins, while they tend to always expose themselves after a short time on the bolsters of my other knives.
View attachment 2377821

That may have to do with the exact alloy used for the cover and pins. If the pins ( which are going to be rubbing against steel) are harder than the covers, they will wear differently. The RR may use the exact same alloy for both so they wear the same.

 

[Alex.Y.]

View attachment 2377894
View attachment 2377900

Thank you, Ed! I understand that type of construction. Here, picture of Douk-Douk disassembled I found on the web a long time ago:

That may have to do with the exact alloy used for the cover and pins. If the pins ( which are going to be rubbing against steel) are harder than the covers, they will wear differently. The RR may use the exact same alloy for both so they wear the same.

Indeed, but they should eventually reveal themselves with a noticable circle. Got to mess around with it and see if it appears, I guess.

 

[Alex.Y.]

There's also an interesting construction here, on Czech classic Fishlet design. Note that there are three pins on pile side, but none in the mark side:


Handle is zinc alloy here, so very unlikely for pins to be tommy pins of the same soft material. Any clues? Might it be that mark side cover is snapped on somehow, like plastic covers on the Victorinox?

 

[yablanowitz]

My guess (and it is only that) would be steel rivets cast in place on the mark side and spun to form heads on the pile side after assembly.

 

[ea42]

Alex this is what I was referring to when I mentioned skeleton construction. The liners are pinned and then a brass (or in this case a gold plated) cover is snapped over it. You'd see a little seam somewhere along the edge if you look at the edge of the handle in the pocket.

There are a number of different ways to do this. Imperial used shell handle construction (a similar method) on almost all of their pocket knives.



Eric

 

[Alex.Y.]

Alex this is what I was referring to when I mentioned skeleton construction. The liners are pinned and then a brass (or in this case a gold plated) cover is snapped over it. You'd see a little seam somewhere along the edge if you look at the edge of the handle in the pocket.

There are a number of different ways to do this. Imperial used shell handle construction (a similar method) on almost all of their pocket knives.

View attachment 2378023View attachment 2378024

Eric

Got it! I looked hard and I don't see any seam on my RR. Seems like each cover is a solid piece of brass, no sign of anikind of liners underneath it.

My guess (and it is only that) would be steel rivets cast in place on the mark side and spun to form heads on the pile side after assembly.

Must be it. Wonder if it might fall apart one day if used excessively, which is not possible, really, because of extremely uncomfortable handle ergonomics.

 

[ea42]

Got it! I looked hard and I don't see any seam on my RR. Seems like each cover is a solid piece of brass, no sign of anikind of liners underneath it.

Very cool, that's a solid knife then!

Eric