How is this possible?

grease-man

grease-man

Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
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I thought long and hard about posting this question, but I can't figure out what happened.

I forged what could be described as a patch knife out of 1/2" x 1/4" O-1 bar stock. After forging the blade I just left the handle part at the original dimension of 1/4" thick. I normalized the blade. I then heated it to critical and put it in a box of vermiculite with some other hot scrap steel to help maintain warmth for a longer period of time. I tried to dril 3 holes in the handle, but only got about an 1/8 inch in and then nowhere. (even with TiNi coted bits) From both sides. Its almost as if there is a "skin" of annealed steel, with a core of God knows what in the middle; however, the blade which is much thinner still grinds like butter. I'm only speculating here, but could the core be cementite or pearlite? If it is one of those two structures, shouldn't I still be able to drill through it?

Another thing that was bugging me, is shouldn't the blade be the part that has the hardness problems since in theory, it should have cooled sooner than the thicker section? Sorry it was such a long post, :o but I felt more details were necessary for a detailed answer. Thanks. -Matt-
 
Kevin Cashen can explain this much better than I, but forged 01 can be a pain in the ass to anneal. I try not to forge any 01 but when I have to, in the oven at 1350f for one hour works for me.
 
I think your problem was heating it to critical when you put it in the vermiculite. Try it again and heat it to a lower heat. You might have to do it more than once.
I anneal O1, L6, M4 and all sorts of stuff in my forge all the time. I just make sure it doesn't austenitize...
 
Oh, I austenetized it sure enough! I was standing in front of the forge trying to remember if I should or shouldn't, couldn't remember, so I did it. Won't do that again. :o

Don, are you saying to soak it at 1350f and it will be annealed, or after the hour, put it in the vermiculite? I didn't quite follow that.
 
grease-man said:
Oh, I austenetized it sure enough! I was standing in front of the forge trying to remember if I should or shouldn't, couldn't remember, so I did it. Won't do that again. :o

Don, are you saying to soak it at 1350f and it will be annealed, or after the hour, put it in the vermiculite? I didn't quite follow that.
Click to expand...

It will be annealed after a one hour soak at 1350f, no need for the vermiculite.

It may have sounded like I don't like 01 but I really do. I just remember all the problems with drilling and sawing when I first started adding it to my damascus years ago. My preference now is for the most simple of carbon steels.
 
Thanks clearing that up Don. After a overcoming a couple of other minor hurdles, I am discovering that O-1 is not as simple as I once thought. I have been thinking of switching to a regular high carbon 10xx series steel for forging, but will keep the O-1 for my stock removal knives. Thanks again. Matt
 
Thanks for the info on annealing O-1. I will definitely be putting it to use. One question. After an hour soak at 1350 in the kiln, how should I cool it? Just a slow cool in the kiln or will air cooling be OK?

Thanks,

-d
 
deker said:
Thanks for the info on annealing O-1. I will definitely be putting it to use. One question. After an hour soak at 1350 in the kiln, how should I cool it? Just a slow cool in the kiln or will air cooling be OK?

Thanks,

-d
Click to expand...
Probably not necessary but I would let it cool with the kin, just to be on the safe side.
 
Sounds like it did not get enough soak time, the center of the metal did not reach critical ?

leon Pugh
 
Where did you get your drill bits? In the past I have had real good luck with the high speed drill bits I got at Harbor Freight but they have switched to the ti coated or piss gold ones they now sell. Those bits are horrible and I wish they'd switch back to the M-2 high speed steel ones that were made in India.
 
Sorry to bring this post back, but I've been off the board for a few days.

I guess it is possible that the center of the handle portion did not get as hot as the rest of the material. I was hanging on to the very end with my tongs.

THe drill bits I used are the "piss gold" TiNi bits from HF. They worked pretty good for some other metal drilling that I've done. I haven't had time to mess with that stinker yet, :D but I'll probably try to re-anneal it, like Don Hanson said,and use some other HSS bits that I have. Thanks again. -Matt-
 
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