How keen an edge do you keep on your outdoor/survival blades.

ebidis

ebidis

Joined
Jun 23, 2012
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For instance my Esee 5. Conventional wisdom would say it does not have to be shaving sharp and might actually be more durable with a more obtuse edge.

I would like to know what your personal experience has shown you.

Also for smaller blades, like an Esee 3, and larger like a BK9, or Junglas, etc.
I have my own experience with these kinds of tasks, just not with quality blades untill now.

Since I now own these blades, but have not had a chance to really put them to hard use yet, I just want to know what works for camp tasks, whittling, chopping, and all that fun stuff.

Many thanks
 
If you do a 40 degree edge the more refined the edge the longer it will last, big knife or axe. Making it shaving sharp at that angle won't make the edge fragile.
 
If I can dry shave hairs easily off the back of my arm, that'll do for me.
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
If you do a 40 degree edge the more refined the edge the longer it will last, big knife or axe. Making it shaving sharp at that angle won't make the edge fragile.
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Is whittling/carving still easy with that edge? Most forum people seem to think anything over 20 degrees is too dull. I am not arguing, I really just don't know.
 
It depends on the total blade geometry when it comes to a lot of things...if it is a thick knife that stays rather thick down towards the edge you would probably want to do a shallow back bevel then a refined 40 degree edge. If you are just doing careful notching and push cuts on wood you could go a bit lower but if you want to split or do light limbing i would stay around 40 degrees.

You could experiment with light strikes, shaving a spear point, etc. With sticks around the house or gathered from the park
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
It depends on the total blade geometry when it comes to a lot of things...if it is a thick knife that stays rather thick down towards the edge you would probably want to do a shallow back bevel then a refined 40 degree edge. If you are just doing careful notching and push cuts on wood you could go a bit lower but if you want to split or do light limbing i would stay around 40 degrees.

You could experiment with light strikes, shaving a spear point, etc. With sticks around the house or gathered from the park
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Good idea. Thanks.
 
I think most people are talking about 20 degrees per side (dps) for a total of 40 degrees. This is a good general purpose angle for blades that will be used for heaven knows what. Dedicated scrapers would likely be higher. I have a large chopper than I keep just under 20 degrees per side, and it works very well and is quite durable, to the point of chopping into coax cable and empty soup cans without damage. At 15 dps, it starts taking damage, but it is 1055 steel, spring tempered. Higher hardness would stop the damage, but I can't change that now.

My work/yard knives get between 15 and 20 dps edges, often with microbevels just a couple of degrees higher. As I often sharpen them on a belt sander, they get a power stropped edge that will shave above my skin. I haven't seen any issues with an edge that sharp on outdoor use.
 
So if a manufacturer claims that they put 20 a degree bevel on a knife, how do I know if they are talking about 20 degrees per side, for a total of 40, or if it's just 20 total?
 
20 degrees per side, 40 inclusive, convex bevel with 6000 grit and finished on black then green compound coated strops.
3/16" to 7/32", 1095, 52100, and Infi.
Shave hair, slice paper & tomatoes, food prep, whittle fire sticks, baton firewood, chop trees. Probably penetrate sheet steel, but I'm not about to try it.
Works for me.
 
I just keep them sharp enough to cut stuff.
Sometimes use the Sharpmaker for 40 degree inclusive, but often just free hand it to who the hell knows what angle.
 
tjswarbrick said:
20 degrees per side, 40 inclusive, convex bevel with 6000 grit and finished on black then green compound coated strops.
3/16" to 7/32", 1095, 52100, and Infi.
Shave hair, slice paper & tomatoes, food prep, whittle fire sticks, baton firewood, chop trees. Probably penetrate sheet steel, but I'm not about to try it.
Works for me.
Click to expand...

Sounds great. I guess I should try 20 per side, 40 inclusive. Seems to be the general consensus. I guess I was under the impression when people were saying 20 degrees, it meant 20 inclusive.
 
You don't know unless they specify what they mean. I will say very few knives, and none I've bought, come with a bevel of 10 degrees per side/20 total. I'm in the process of rebeveling 2 of my own to less than this, but no manufacturer I know of would do it. 20 dps is a good place to start, and you can go up or down as need dictates, though going up will leave a visible double bevel on the edge, if that sort of thing bothers you. If you don't have a way to measure/reproduce a set angle, just go with "lower" or "higher" like stabman said, until you find what you like.
 
the Mora knives meant for wood working have a 10 degree per side. My Bushcraft Triflex has a 12.5 degree per side. I think the sharpness has to do with grain size within the steel and the size of any carbides on the surface of the edge. So at the same hardness an edge with a grain size of 14 can be sharpened to a finer edge than one with a grain size of 10. This is assuming any carbides in the steel are smaller than the grain size.
 
i go for coarse edges but polished so they are shaving sharp. i think a coarse edge at either a 30 or 40 degree angle will work just fine if finished properly. having a really refined edge which i call a novelty edge is way too sharp to be of any good out in the field.

a convex edge would be even more durable. the knives i make are chisel grinds so i put a half convex edge on them. here is a vid of a knife i made with a half convex edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_eMwRaHYg when i got it back, it was sharp enough that it would still do anything you needed to do even though it lost the shaving sharp edge which i brought back with a couple of passes on my slotted buffing wheel. i keep this knife sharp enough to do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iDE2EBzBw
 
I take mine to only 300 grit with no stropping as I've found this offers a longer lasting, more durable edge and I'm at 15* per side. DM
 
What I've done with my ESEE-5 is I have gone to work on it with a file. I have dramatically widened the secondary bevel to about 30 degrees or maybe a little less. It's about a centimeter wide. Then I microbevel, with a Sharpmaker, to 40 degrees and maintain that.
 
David Martin said:
I take mine to only 300 grit with no stropping as I've found this offers a longer lasting, more durable edge and I'm at 15* per side. DM
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+1 to that david. i had an older guy at a fundraiser i was sharpening knives at tell me that a coarser edge will outlast a super fine edge. a lot of members i talk to that used to think a novelty edge was the way to go now see that a coarser edge is the way to go by doing their own experiments with coarse grit paper or stones and not going any finer than say 400 grit.

david, i was talking to ken onion a while back about sharpening and he told me to get some tormek paste for my slotted wheel and only buff the burr side. i bet that would be one wicked sharp edge that would last a real long time.
 
Thanks Richard. Yes, we discovered this years ago. Some still struggle with this knowledge. DM
 
I used to sharpen up my knives to a fine shaving edge, but in recent years I've reverted. I was digging through some very old stuff up in the attic, and came across my old Boy Scout pocket stone in it's leather slip. The old gray stone that we used to call a 'carborundum' stone. It's course, 300 grit or so. I sharpened up a pocket knife wth it and it stayed sharp a lot longer than even the 600 grit of the diamond hones. It made me recall how in the old days we didn't sharpen our knives that much, but they always cut what we needed to cut. Now, the old style stone is all I use. It's fast, just a minute or two, and the edge stays well.

Sometimes old school still works. Old revolvers, side by side shotguns, and 'carborundum' stones.

I'm a retired old fart with only so many heart beats left. I don't have time anymore for things that don't work fast and effectively.
 
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