How long may my folding knife be in California?

[Stahlmann]

When it comes to manual-opening folding knives, California has no legal limit on blade length, so long as the knife is carried folded-up and not locked open. At least that's what a bunch of layers' websites claim -- I can't find a copy of the actual penal code online.

My local city penal code says this:

9.16.010(B) Dangerous and deadly weapons—Defined
"The term “dangerous and deadly weapon” as used in this chapter shall also include, but not be limited to:

1. Any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length;"

---

9.16.020 Dangerous and deadly weapons—Discharge or carrying prohibited.

B. "Except as expressly permitted by state or federal law, it is unlawful for any person to carry upon his or her person or to have in his or her possession or under his or her control in any public place within the city any dangerous weapon specified in Section 9.16.010(B);"

---

So the $10.00 question is does California expressly permit the carrying of any sized folder so long as it's folded-up when being carried? I can't find the exact penal code on line. All I can find is a bunch of lawyers' websites claiming that any length folding knife may be legally carried in California so long as it's closed.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Hickory n steel]

California has no knife length limits at all as far as I'm aware.
It's just up to the city / county...ect.

Basically they're saying it's a deadly weapon and deadly weapons are a no-go, so technically you seem to be limited to a 3" blade.

They would not bother to specify anything like this if it were simply " if the state doesn't say no ".
It sounds like that " expressly permitted " means you have to have been specifically granted special permission by the state.
Ie a permit which I don't think is even a thing you can get for knives.
I could be wrong.

 

[killgar]

It's very rare for a criminal/penal code to specify what is LEGAL. Instead, they focus on what is ILLEGAL.

There is no statute or wording in the California penal code that says what length of folding knife is legal. There are several statutes that specify what blade lengths, and in what types of knives, and in what locations, are illegal.

Like for example, the CA penal code says (in so many words) that switchblades with blades 2" or longer are illegal to carry, but it doesn't specifically say that "switchblades with blades under 2" are legal to carry". We are left to deduce what is legal for ourselves, but it's pretty clear. Relevant statutes on switchblades are CA pc 17235, 21590, 21510.

Under California state law, with the exception of school property (CA pc 626.10), there is no blade length limit on manual folding knives so long as they are designed to have a bias towards the closed position (CA pc 17235). As far as carrying a folding knife concealed with the blade in the open position, ANY locking folding knife carried concealed in the open position is illegal, regardless of blade length, even one with a 1" blade (carrying an open, concealed non-locking folder is also a risky proposition, people have been charged).

Some counties/cities in the state of California have there own blade length limits that override state law, like Los Angeles for example. But the LA laws have a number of exceptions that permit the carry of larger blades.

 

[ferider]

California has no knife length limits at all as far as I'm aware.
It's just up to the city / county ... ect.

This. Many counties/cities have very strict knife laws, including "no loitering" laws, etc.

There is also a length limitation (4"?) in government buildings (like the DMV), on school properties (< 2.5"), etc.

When anybody checks your knife, make sure they know it's a tool that you need for your job.

 

[Stahlmann]

It's very rare for a criminal/penal code to specify what is LEGAL. Instead, they focus on what is ILLEGAL.

There is no statute or wording in the California penal code that says what length of folding knife is legal. There are several statutes that specify what blade lengths, and in what types of knives, and in what locations, are illegal.

Like for example, the CA penal code says (in so many words) that switchblades with blades 2" or longer are illegal to carry, but it doesn't specifically say that "switchblades with blades under 2" are legal to carry". We are left to deduce what is legal for ourselves, but it's pretty clear. Relevant statutes on switchblades are CA pc 17235, 21590, 21510.

Under California state law, with the exception of school property (CA pc 626.10), there is no blade length limit on manual folding knives so long as they are designed to have a bias towards the closed position (CA pc 17235). As far as carrying a folding knife concealed with the blade in the open position, ANY locking folding knife carried concealed in the open position is illegal, regardless of blade length, even one with a 1" blade (carrying an open, concealed non-locking folder is also a risky proposition, people have been charged).

Some counties/cities in the state of California have there own blade length limits that override state law, like Los Angeles for example. But the LA laws have a number of exceptions that permit the carry of larger blades.

Still, any length of folding knife is implicitly permitted for carry in CA (as far as the state is concerned) per the CA PC. That's extremely clear, thus expressly permitted -- at least in normal language/non legalease. But it's not actually specified, leaving me to wonder precisely what "expressly" means in this (legal) context?

 

[Hickory n steel]

But it's not actually specified, leaving me to wonder precisely what "expressly" means in this (legal) context?

I think you're best to just air on the side of caution and consider it to mean you need a special reason, otherwise I say just stay out of trouble and politely take the warning if your knife ever comes into question.

That's just me though, most of my knives are modest traditionals and I live in a rural area that I don't leave very regularly.

If it's really important enough to you then you'll probably wanna ask a lawyer.

 

[Stahlmann]

I think you're best to just air on the side of caution and consider it to mean you need a special reason, otherwise I say just stay out of trouble and politely take the warning if your knife ever comes into question.

That's just me though, most of my knives are modest traditionals and I live in a rural area that I don't leave very regularly.

If it's really important enough to you then you'll probably wanna ask a lawyer.

Without a doubt that's the safe road to take. I would never do something that was clearly illegal -- carry an automatic for instance, though I can't imagine ever being frisked. What I could imagine though is needing to use my knife and hesitating because it might mean opening it in front of a LEO or a tattler.

On the other hand I do appreciate the the utility a large folder offers. One thing I have learned from this website. It's good to carry two knives if your EDC is large and/or scary looking. Your second blade (e.g. small Swiss Army) can handle a lot of tasks without anyone batting an eye.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Without a doubt that's the safe road to take. I would never do something that was clearly illegal -- carry an automatic for instance, though I can't imagine ever being frisked. What I could imagine though is needing to use my knife and hesitating because it might mean opening it in front of a LEO or a tattler.

On the other hand I do appreciate the the utility a large folder offers. One thing I have learned from this website. It's good to carry two knives if your EDC is large and/or scary looking. Your second blade (e.g. small Swiss Army) can handle a lot of tasks without anyone batting an eye.

Just try to think of the last time you truly needed to perform a utilitarian task that was appropriate for a folder but required a blade more than 3".
I understand the sentiment that a smaller knife could prove too small at some point while the opposite isn't necessarily true for larger knives, but if you're worried and if you don't want to carry a smaller additional knife I would just go with a more modest blade and cross that potential bridge if it ever presents itself.


You could always just put a Vic cadet in your watch pocket though, I'm sure the other impliments it incorporates will prove useful when you're not needing the blade.

 

[ferider]

Just try to think of the last time you truly needed to perform a utilitarian task that was appropriate for a folder but required a blade more than 3".

That's real easy: try to cut a loaf of bread or slice an apple (full slices), a block of cheese, etc., and see how far you get with a 3" blade.

 

[Danke42]

That's real easy: try to cut a loaf of bread or slice an apple (full slices), a block of cheese, etc., and see how far you get with a 3" blade.

Absolutely. If you are a sandwich artist then a large knife is critical.

 

[ferider]

Absolutely. If you are a sandwich artist then a large knife is critical.

I ran into this one, didn't I ?

Then again, wasn't even thinking about sandwiches .... No Karen or security guard involved.

 

[fishface5]

While you couldn't be prosecuted for possession in public under the state statute based on blade length (improper use is a separate matter), you could be prosecuted under your local municipal code for possession in public of a knife with blade over 3". Implicit is the opposite of express, and local governments may make laws more restrictive than state laws unless state law is explicit that they cannot do so.

On the other hand, enforcement always comes down to LEO discretion. If you don't piss them off and it's not a pocket sword you probably won't get hassled. Probably.

 

[killgar]

Heck, the way things are in California these days, between an unwillingness to hold criminals accountable, and criminals being cut loose because of covid, I seriously doubt any LEO in California would waste their time arresting someone for mere possession of an oversized knife. From what I hear, they often don't bother to arrest people for many crimes that used to result in a trip to jail. The reason being- why bother arresting someone if they're not going to be prosecuted and just turned loose.

 

[jbmonkey]

Just try to think of the last time you truly needed to perform a utilitarian task that was appropriate for a folder but required a blade more than 3".
I understand the sentiment that a smaller knife could prove too small at some point while the opposite isn't necessarily true for larger knives, but if you're worried and if you don't want to carry a smaller additional knife I would just go with a more modest blade and cross that potential bridge if it ever presents itself.


You could always just put a Vic cadet in your watch pocket though, I'm sure the other impliments it incorporates will prove useful when you're not needing the blade.

today, I cut up a pineapple at work. 3" isn't enough blade.......glad I had a bigger bladed folder to do the work.

 

[Hickory n steel]

That's real easy: try to cut a loaf of bread or slice an apple (full slices), a block of cheese, etc., and see how far you get with a 3" blade.

You can do it one side at a time, but the point is well taken.
3" was just an example BTW, I'm not real up to speed on the common blade length for the average modern folder.

 

[Stahlmann]

While you couldn't be prosecuted for possession in public under the state statute based on blade length (improper use is a separate matter), you could be prosecuted under your local municipal code for possession in public of a knife with blade over 3". Implicit is the opposite of express, and local governments may make laws more restrictive than state laws unless state law is explicit that they cannot do so.

On the other hand, enforcement always comes down to LEO discretion. If you don't piss them off and it's not a pocket sword you probably won't get hassled. Probably.

Implicit is actually the opposite of explicit and explicit does not equate to express.

 

[Stahlmann]

Heck, the way things are in California these days, between an unwillingness to hold criminals accountable, and criminals being cut loose because of covid, I seriously doubt any LEO in California would waste their time arresting someone for mere possession of an oversized knife. From what I hear, they often don't bother to arrest people for many crimes that used to result in a trip to jail. The reason being- why bother arresting someone if they're not going to be prosecuted and just turned loose.

While some really get off denigrating California, at the state level it has some of the better knife laws in the US.

 

[Stahlmann]

If you take a step back and look at my question, it really does raise some eyebrows:

First, even if I bought the knife from a local brick/mortar store, there were no legal instructions that came with it. It was easy enough to find the CA state knife laws. It wasn't easy to find the local state laws -- and that was with the benefit of the web. What was it like back in the day or for people today who don't use the Internet?

Second, I can't imagine being frisked. Ever.

Third, unless there's a breach in my situational awareness, I can't imagine a LEO observing me employing a knife of any kind.

Fourth, I have seen MANY guys (mostly bikers) with HUGE fixed blade numbers strapped to their legs in plain sight of LEOs here locally over the years and none of them got in any sorta knife trouble from what I could see.

 

[ferider]

Second, I can't imagine being frisked. Ever.

I once had a motorcycle accident, passed out, and woke up naked in the hospital. Two cops next to my bed taking my story. (they weren't worried about my knife, but you might get my point)

 

[Stahlmann]

Just try to think of the last time you truly needed to perform a utilitarian task that was appropriate for a folder but required a blade more than 3".
I understand the sentiment that a smaller knife could prove too small at some point while the opposite isn't necessarily true for larger knives, but if you're worried and if you don't want to carry a smaller additional knife I would just go with a more modest blade and cross that potential bridge if it ever presents itself.


You could always just put a Vic cadet in your watch pocket though, I'm sure the other impliments it incorporates will prove useful when you're not needing the blade.

A few Sundays ago I was at church, during the coffee social which followed the Mass. Some ladies were wrestling with a "full sheet cake." It was HUGE and all they had was what appeared to be maybe a 6-8" chef's knife.

A guy sitting at my table said "they don't have the right tool for the job", got up went to his vehicle and returned with an old US Military sword of some sort. It made very short work of the sheet cake and delighted the women struggling to cut it.

Folder or not, big blades, even BIG blades, have real applications...