How many Blades (Grinding question)

Bruce Evans

Bruce Evans

Joined
Sep 26, 1999
Messages
4,486
The Question here is due to the fact that I am teaching a guy how to grind blades and he has no experience with power tools.
He has ground 4 blades so far and I tell him that he is doing good ( they arent perfect yet ) But I was wondering How many Blades you ground before you got your first Knife Blade ground so you could finish it.
I am asking so I can keep him from getting discourage...
Thanks,
Bruce

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Bruce Evans Handcrafted Knives
The soul of the Knife begins in the Fire!!!!!
Member of,AKTI#A000223 and The American Bladesmith Society
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Bruce, at about a dozen, I started to think I was getting it and 15 years later I learn from each one. I have been helping a fellow too and saw improvement after the first 6. Some of this has got to be attributed to natural "gifts" and talent and as you are very aware practice, practice, etc.

If his comfort level is OK around the grinder, he should do fine. I doubt anyone would know better than you if he has the aptitude for doing this in the first place. You should be able to tell him pretty quick if he should consider some other vocation. Terry

[This message has been edited by Blind Dog (edited 03-17-2001).]
 
well bruce i still have not made or seen a perfect knife. though your's look pretty close. but to help your bud along. i'll go with blind dog that at about 12 blades is when the light bulb started to come on. but i am self taught. just read a couple of books and burned up enought steel and flesh until i got a clue. LOL

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Laurence Segal www.RHINOKNIVES.com
 
Geez, you guys really suck, my first blade was as perfect as the day is long... Um, er, uh, yeah right
wink.gif


The very first few were done with files...but then a guy got me to use a jig, that worked for a few...but then I decided to really make knives without limits, I needed to rid myself of the jig.

At that point, I think I started my blade ruining spree. I ground SEVERAL that I just flat SCREWED UP!!! Please tell your friend this. I kept at it, kept at it, almost gave up, tried it some more, kept at it, and now I can grind whatever you want. It just takes time and patience.

Please let him know it doesn't have to "come on" the first few times. Or even the first 20, or whatever...he WILL GET IT IF HE KEEPS TRYING!!!
smile.gif


Nick
 
Hey Guys...

This is the exact problem I face even getting started...

A very good friend of mine Jeff Diotte has told me I can use his grinders anytime I want,, but I'm afraid to spend hours upon hours profiling blades only to destroy them in minutes on a grinder...

I tried it once and there were more facets in the blade then on a diamond...
I can't afford the time to learn right now,,nor can I afford the cost of wasted steel..

Is there a way of learing the plundge cuts without wasting time making the rest of the knife ??


ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
Eric-

Seeing your post reminds me I have a couple tactical blades that need concealex/kydex work...

Anyway, plunge cuts can be practiced on any steel of thickness similar to a blade. Because a plunge most often will be on a straight section of blade. It's only on the fancy knives where you have to do a curved or long plunge that it gets crazy.

I understand completely about profiling then ruining, it just plain sucks.

I always recommend to someone that they get some "cheap" steel to practice on like 01, because if the blade does turn out, it can be heat-treated into a servicable knife. And 01 is A LOT cheaper than ATS-34, BG42, D2, etc...

Nick
 
I'm gonna get one right pretty soon.
I think a guy should finish his first one so you got something to look back on.
I gave my first knife and first forged knife and some other first knifes to my Son. Boy he sure has a collection of some pretty weird knives.
Take Care
TJ Smith
 
The only experience I can offer is that I play guitar.I did not become good over night.I would get so frustrated having someone show me a song and I just couldn't get it.My friend started playing the same time I did and he could just unconsciously rip guitar solos like he had played for years.It really deep down hurt and he would even belittle me cause I couldn't play a song like he could,some friend huh, but I still would sit in my bedroom and play and play till my guitar was covered with blood,seriously.That was 20 years or so ago and now I ain't half bad if I do say so myself.He still is better than me but he doesn't get to play much in Federal Prison.
Point is if you want something bad enough stick with it through the good and the bad and it will come,and when it does, to me it is much more satisfying if you have earned it.
 
actually I think that is the wrong question, as everyone has a different learning curve. If he has any experience making something that would help, but grinding knives is a very unique skill. One thing I always do is make sure they are grinding steel that is on the thicker side- .187" so there is plenty of room to get the feel and also to make a deeper groove (hollow grind), and I never have them start with anything but the simpliest knife with a fairly short blade. hope that helps.
 
I must have been reading Tom's mind! I have to date finished 4 knives, and the first was with files. Those 4 knives took 3 years to do and I have chucked 2 knives. Actually I have another that I ground and got heat treated but it is a royal POS, but I still have it. I'll be putting an edge on it and using it as a "shop knife". All I need is a shop now!!

I have taken a loooooooong time between knives because I have been very busy keeping my GPA up, but taking that time has allowed me to think, think, and think some more about the grinding I have done and the grinding I will soon do, and that has helped tremeandously. Visualization is the key there.

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"Come What May..."
 
The best reassurance I've ever had came from Bob Engath's website: "There's no such thing as a perfect knife." He's right and trying to make one perfect is a guaranteed road to the funny farm...

That said, my own recent experience might apply. After a 7-year hiatus I got back to grinding. Thought I'd start with something simple, so profiled 4 tantos in the same pattern.

On the first one I let the belt torque the blade way past the scribed grind line, resulting in a "redesigned" blade...

Only three of the four survived to finish. Of the three, one really, really sucks. The long grind line has a dip in it (on both sides, and in the same place too!), one of the flats isn't, and I clamped it in the vise once without tape and with dirty blocks that "tatooed" the finish.

Beyond grinding, I put 4 sets of bolsters on the bad luck one, and two sets of scales, before I got a handleI could leave alone -- but I think I'm going back to the grinder on that one too, it just isn't right... Did I mention the road to the funny farm?

These are knives 14, 15, and 16 in my career, and the first three in my new incarnation. They are not very inspired in terms of design, and the grinding and finish is pretty sophomoric, but they're a starting point. I have big plans but clearly need some practice!

My only comment if your friend is feeling a bit frustrated, is Stop for a while. I've learned to stay out of the shop unless I'm feeling perfectly calm and relaxed. Otherwise, nothing works. And if my work starts to go south I find something else to do, like fold laundry.
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Dave
 
Bruce,
I first practiced on wood.

Even today, when I am going to try something different, I pick up a piece of 2X4 and slice off about a 1/4" wide piece with my table saw and grind it first. Its good practice for a new guy.

To see where he's going, spray some dark paint on the wood so he can follow his grind line.

We are all still learning....no matter how many knives we have made.

Craig
 
Thanks everybody....I hope that I didn't say that first part wrong.I wasn't trying to make his first knife perfect,just where he will be proud of it....Heck he seen me mess up a grind myself one day and then mess up a handle another day that I had to remove and fix...
He is a Doctor so I just remind him of how long it to him to learn different things and how long he was in school,I do tell him when I feel that he has ground enough for the day and that maybe he should watch me do something else or try something ekse himself.
I think that we will finish one of his attempts this week.
Bruce

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Bruce Evans Handcrafted Knives
The soul of the Knife begins in the Fire!!!!!
Member of,AKTI#A000223 and The American Bladesmith Society
asmallpicofbruceforforums.jpg
 
My time for the first grind appraches fast now. I should have the wheels for the grinder I have been making early this week and then the final assy. of it. After that comes the likely opportunity to add to my scrap pile height before I find out how to approach this correctly. Nick Wheeler will likely be in attendance for the maiden voyage of the new machine. I plan on practicing my grinding on A36 flat bar before starting on tool steels. I know it will grind differently because of its low carbon content but it should give me the basic moves.
 
First let me say that you guys (esp Bruce) that are helping out the new fellas are really doing something great.

I too have assembled and am tinkering with all the necessary evil machinery of Knife Making and I'm in the same boat as Bruce's friend in that I've never had any experience with big Power Equipment. Nor do I seem to have any established Makers near me that are willing to let a new guy come over and actually use their machines (probably just Liability concerns I guess). SOOO I think these guys that are getting the assistance from you established Makers should come along pretty quickly if they keep at it. It really helps to personally watch how to do Grinding and such which is why right now I am trying try to attend as many seminars and symposiums as possible, but to have some time "mono-y-mono" with someone that is an expert and can guide you would be priceless!

I think the idea mentioned above of using Wood to initially learn Grinding is excellent. Lets you experience the machine's feel without wasting Belts and Steel. Possibly a little safer as well...?? But I bet the truu answer has already been given... Practice, practice.......

Good Topic.



 
As usual, Tom has shown a great deal of insight. I started building swords. I love to build large Bowies. I have a LOT of trouble turning out a small knife and never understood why untill now. It's the thin steel. Good advice Tom!
 
I agree with Tom Mayo. Everybodu has a different learningcurve.

I have been making knives for 14 years or so. 4-5 years ago I got my first beltgrinder (real bad one, slow and underpowered) The first blade I made on that one, was actually quit good. Last year I built my first REAL grinder and I grinded 2 blades before I got the hang of it. Still improoving ofcourse. On every blade. But I get decent results.

I guess it has alot to do with you bacground to. Even though I did not grind on beltgrinder the first 10 years I used just about every powertool avaiable to improove. This gave me some experience.

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Jens Anso, jens@ansoknives.com
(check out my homepage)
Ansoknives.com
 
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