How many knives does ZT make?

[dkb45]

We all know ZT makes a lot of knife-like things. Most of their models suffer from the same problems, though. They are between a sharpened pry-bar and a proper knife, less pry-bar than Medford but nowhere near as knife-y for most models as... Well most knives from many other companies. Thick behind the edge, overly thick stock, and worst of all underperforming steel for most models (their S35VN consistently rates with the worst edge retention, to the point that some thought they got botched HT).

So my question stands, how many actual knives does ZT make, with a proper grind for cutting, a proper stock for a folder, and a proper HT to make premium steel perform like a premium steel?

Before they switched from Elmax to S35VN, the HT was at least decent, so if a knife wasn't very thin it would at least still cut for a while, but their S35VN acts closer to a hard AUS-8 in terms of edge retention, pretty poor for a $100+ knife.

 

[Yonose]

I just got a Kershae Link in m390 for $80. The thickness of the blade is .11” which is about the same thickness as an endura. The shape of the blade from the top still looks like a ZT, just a lot thinner. From the side it doesn’t resemble a at at all. I know it’s Not a zt, but both are made by kai, presumably in the same OR facility. I don’t believe ZT makes a knife thinner than .15”. The only ZT I own with s35vn is the 0909. The rest of mine are cts-204p, cpm 20cv, and s30v. The 0562cf seems like a “good enough” slicer, imo.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

IBTL/IBTM

 

[dkb45]

I want to clarify, I don't hate ZT. I love quite a few of their designs despite performing kinda poorly. The Emerson designs are awesome, possibly my favorite ZT knives even with the bricky stock and thick unmilled liner. The 0808 is a sweet flipper despite it seemingly being impossibly heavy for the size, and even with the crazy thick stock and grind the 801 is one of my favorite knives of all time. I don't hate them, they just can do a lot better without too much work.

 

[dkb45]

I just got a Kershae Link in m390 for $80. The thickness of the blade is .11” which is about the same thickness as an endura. The shape of the blade from the top still looks like a ZT, just a lot thinner. From the side it doesn’t resemble a at at all. I know it’s Not a zt, but both are made by kai, presumably in the same OR facility. I don’t believe ZT makes a knife thinner than .15”. The only ZT I own with s35vn is the 0909. The rest of mine are cts-204p, cpm 20cv, and s30v. The 0562cf seems like a “good enough” slicer, imo.

The Link actually is a really nice knife. Sadly it only comes assisted, if it was manual I would always carry mine. The HT on the M390 is great, it's nice and thin, and it's comfy in the hand. No fun to only carry 1 knife though (not at a time, I rotate).

The 0562CF is actually nice, and the stock isn't super thick, but it does not have a deep grind. It's crazy thick behind the edge, with a regrind it would be an excellent knife. The 0450 is the same way, decent stock but a terribly shallow grind leaving it unnecassarily thick behind the edge.

 

[Dfunk1210]

We all know ZT makes a lot of knife-like things. Most of their models suffer from the same problems, though. They are between a sharpened pry-bar and a proper knife, less pry-bar than Medford but nowhere near as knife-y for most models as... Well most knives from many other companies. Thick behind the edge, overly thick stock, and worst of all underperforming steel for most models (their S35VN consistently rates with the worst edge retention, to the point that some thought they got botched HT).

So my question stands, how many actual knives does ZT make, with a proper grind for cutting, a proper stock for a folder, and a proper HT to make premium steel perform like a premium steel?

Before they switched from Elmax to S35VN, the HT was at least decent, so if a knife wasn't very thin it would at least still cut for a while, but their S35VN acts closer to a hard AUS-8 in terms of edge retention, pretty poor for a $100+ knife.

This wasn't your view of ZT's heat treat several month ago in a debate on the issue of ZT's s35vn heat treat. Why the sudden change of heart? ZT s35vn is like hard Aus-8? Those are pretty harsh words. None of what you are saying was proved back then and it sure as hell isn't proven now. I have to ask why you are bringing this back up in such spectacular fashion?

 

[115Italian]

Ill have to disagree with the OP. The bubble world you want this tread to live in doesnt really exist. I have no problem with my ZTs cutting or holding an edge. I haven’t heard anyone else complaining either.

 

[AF]

I have a 0630 and it's a bit thick but I like it. Waves easily with minimal pocket wear. Haven't used it enough to comment on edge retention.
My understanding is that the 0804cf was ground relatively thin.
I'm interested in the 0462 which also looks to have an decent grind.
In the category of "sharp pocket jewelry" I'm not sure most buyers are chiefly concerned with edge geometry. Thick stock is one of the styling cues of the flashy, ti framelock on bearings.
Did you think it was all about practicality?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Not a ZT fan in the least, but the lack of an actual question makes it hard to interpret this as anything but a troll thread, particularly claims about how ZT steels consistently rate worse than those from other companies with no supporting evidence offered.

I will, however, offer you, OP, a 100% consistent solution to this issue that I've employed for many years now. Stop buying ZTs. It really is that simple.

 

[Mo2]

Most of zt's problems are... Lockbar geometry

And https://www.instagram.com/p/BhdBoj1ggRn/

Lockbars touching show side etc. Not all of them do this but seems to be common to zt.

Too thick behind the edge of course. As for heat treatment they have had some with issues, but who doesn't. Some of those few were just burnt edges. Fairly common with the way manufacturers in general grind there primary bevels.

 

[Gravy]

I went ahead and did some really unscientific testing and cut up a nice little pile of cardboard, using my ZT 0450CF, 0630, and Kizer Ki405 just to see how the S35VN holds up. They all performed about the same, despite the radically different profiles and geometries. They lost the razor edge pretty fast, but the working edge seemed unfazed by a fair bit of cutting. The DLC on my 450CF actually increased drag on cutting cardboard versus the satin. That was not expected.

I don't much care for the performance of S35VN, I was hoping I would be a lot different from S30V, but it the different knives performed acceptably. Elmax definitely worked better than S35VN in my experience for my wants.

Wait I thought it was consistently worse than the competition?

So my question stands, how many actual knives does ZT make, with a proper grind for cutting, a proper stock for a folder, and a proper HT to make premium steel perform like a premium steel?

You cant really answer this because your idea of a "proper grind" and "proper stock" are not universal. That's subjective.

My Techno with 5mm stock cuts perfectly fine for me.

 

[craytab]

Not a ZT fan in the least, but the lack of an actual question makes it hard to interpret this as anything but a troll thread, particularly claims about how ZT steels consistently rate worse than those from other companies with no supporting evidence offered.

Bingo.

OP, ZT makes as many actual knives as considered by whatever undefined arbitrary parameters you can make up or come up with.

 

[TheFactor]

Not enough !

 

[dkb45]

This wasn't your view of ZT's heat treat several month ago in a debate on the issue of ZT's s35vn heat treat. Why the sudden change of heart? ZT s35vn is like hard Aus-8? Those are pretty harsh words. None of what you are saying was proved back then and it sure as hell isn't proven now. I have to ask why you are bringing this back up in such spectacular fashion?

I've gotten more hands on experience with S35VN since then, namely in the Massdrop Ferrum Forge knives, and I've seen what the steel is capable of. The ZT heat treat isn't garbage, calling it a hard AUS-8 might be a bit sensationalized, but it definitely doesn't perform as well as other S35VN, either toothy or refined.

Not enough !

That's one I want to try out, I just keep buying other knives so I can never save up the money to get one. I want to get both the 0393 and 0609 because they look like they are winners, good grind and stock, 20CV, and some nice texturing. The hard part is not buying everything I like when I get a good deal.

 

[TheFactor]

I've gotten more hands on experience with S35VN since then, namely in the Massdrop Ferrum Forge knives, and I've seen what the steel is capable of. The ZT heat treat isn't garbage, calling it a hard AUS-8 might be a bit sensationalized, but it definitely doesn't perform as well as other S35VN, either toothy or refined.

That's one I want to try out, I just keep buying other knives so I can never save up the money to get one. I want to get both the 0393 and 0609 because they look like they are winners, good grind and stock, 20CV, and some nice texturing. The hard part is not buying everything I like when I get a good deal.

I know exactly what you mean lol .

 

[Dfunk1210]

I've gotten more hands on experience with S35VN since then, namely in the Massdrop Ferrum Forge knives, and I've seen what the steel is capable of. The ZT heat treat isn't garbage, calling it a hard AUS-8 might be a bit sensationalized, but it definitely doesn't perform as well as other S35VN, either toothy or refined.

I've been carrying mostly my ZT 0801ti this past year. I also have carried my WE 606CFA (WE makes the Massdrop knives). Maybe I haven't used my knives enough, but I don't see it. But what do I know.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I've gotten more hands on experience with S35VN since then, namely in the Massdrop Ferrum Forge knives, and I've seen what the steel is capable of. The ZT heat treat isn't garbage, calling it a hard AUS-8 might be a bit sensationalized, but it definitely doesn't perform as well as other S35VN, either toothy or refined.

That's one I want to try out, I just keep buying other knives so I can never save up the money to get one. I want to get both the 0393 and 0609 because they look like they are winners, good grind and stock, 20CV, and some nice texturing. The hard part is not buying everything I like when I get a good deal.

Edited because early morning snark.

I am still skeptical of your claims to be frank, but I find it likely the difference in edge retention you may be experiencing is largely due to your complaint about thickness behind the edge and geometry rather than anything lacking in the steel or heat treat protocol.

A member named Hardhearted did CATRA testing on 4 identical blades in different steels and found edge angle caused a more profound difference in edge retention than any other single factor. It was years ago, but I'll try to dig it up later.

 

[unwisefool]

I've owned a number of ZT knives and never had lock rock on any of them. Actually, except for one buck knife and one crappy gas store knife, I've never had it on any of my knives. Maybe if people used them and didn't just immediately make videos tugging on the blades as hard as possible, they would not have so many issues.

 

[blades&wrenches]

0609, 0450, 0770, 0566, 0460, 0095 all have blade stocks of about .12"
All of those, save the 0460, have been offered with a steel upgrade to S35VN also.

 

[dkb45]

Edited because early morning snark.

I am still skeptical of your claims to be frank, but I find it likely the difference in edge retention you may be experiencing is largely due to your complaint about thickness behind the edge and geometry rather than anything lacking in the steel or heat treat protocol.

A member named Hardhearted did CATRA testing on 4 identical blades in different steels and found edge angle caused a more profound difference in edge retention than any other single factor. It was years ago, but I'll try to dig it up later.

Honestly, it could be largely from geometry. The knives that I've had the worst performance with S35VN on have been a bit chunky. Best performance was with my FFKW Gent, which is nice and thin. My 0630 is ground decently, but the stock is a little thick, and it's giving pretty solid middle of the road performance.