How many of you regularily dig with a knife?

[ROCK6]

I understand the importance of a quality "do-almost-all" type of knife. Most extreme or especially "Hood's" types of tests and reviews include a lot of digging with their blades. Now, under extreme circumstances, digging may very well be a big issue, but how many of you actually "practice" or regularily use your main blade for digging (I'm assuming the main blades are the larger Chris Reeve, Fehrman, Busse, Becker, Khukuri, etc.-types)?

I typically always avoid digging with my knives, tomahawks or axes...I did use a POS Kukri once, and it did a decent job (and messed the edge up really well ). Normally for camping I'll try to bring my CS Shovel along or at least a small plastic trowel. I have thought about getting one of the Cold Steel Bushman's for "extreme" jobs, and leaving the Busse NOe or CR Project 1 to actual cutting/chopping tasks.

I know it's comforting knowing that your main blade can pound, chop, slice, dig, paddle, hack, pry, fire-poke, split, throw and serve as a pull-up bar quite well without failure ...but you know the saying about "using the right tool for the job"...and it probably wouldn't hurt too much to at least practice with it, but for a lot of digging use...a small trowel or shovel would work best IMHO.

So do you carry a beater, trowel/shovel or use your Busse for a cat-hole digger?

ROCK6

 

[Myakka]

I have never dug with a knife I see no reason to abuse a knive like that. If you ever need to dig, just make your self a Digging Stick. Knives are a cutting tool designed to cut and carve. With alittle skill one can learn to create many fine and specialized tools with there knife. One can whittle a spoon, paddle, make a fireboard and spindle and even a digging stick.

 

[Brian Jones]

I personally like to dig up root plants that can be used as food (i.e. thistles), or others. ususally these plants are in softer soil, do I carry a knife that'll do the trick -- this is where tanto style blades can be handy or something with a reinfoirced point, like my Fehrmans. I don't want to carry a whole bunch of tools for this, so I just bring a knife that I know will do the task. I do this on dayhikes, too, so I certainly don't wanna be all loaded out with various steel! The BKT TacTool is awesome as a digger -- the front flat edge can be used for digging, preserving the main blade.

Ron Simonich made his Mid-tech Raven with a reinfoced point because he likes to dig, too. That was the resaon for it. It also will dig foxholes etc in emergencies for military personnel.

In a longer term situation (planned), then I'd bring along other tools for the task, though, unless I am practicing survival-style camping and want to do it the hard way...

Just some thoughts to add to this.

~Brian.

 

[Moine]

I never dig with my steels unless I'm really forced to. My main digging tool is my hiking staff. When I don't carry it, I just cut myself a standing dead, dry digging stick. Use it to loosen the earth and shovel with your hands. You can also use a good stick to pry up stones, stuff like that.

For digging in snow, making an igloo, stuff like that, a machete is probably the greatest tool imaginable.

Cheers,

David

 

[longbow50]

Like others, I choose not to abuse my knife. I use a digging stick to loosen up the soil and if I happen to have my ruck with me, I carry a small garden spade.

 

[ras]

It's good for Ron Hood to demonstrate this application of the knife just so folks can know that it can be done. But it's sorta like practicing bleeding, I know I can bleed if cut, why practice. I use a CS shovel for digging, an axe for chopping and my knives for cutting the lighter stuff. That said, I'd trust my Fehrman to dig and chop but why beat the crap out of it when better digging and chopping tools are available.

 

[Robert H]

I used to use my Ka Bar to dig up, or uncover ordnance in the field, especially in the states when working with artillery shells. I would clear the fuze, inspect it, then carry the round over to the rest of the stack for range clearance. (20 155's stacked makes a hell of a fun bang) I carried a sheath on my flack jacket that held my knife, crimpers, electrical tape, and multi tool. The Ka Bar became a multi use digging tool and probe, good or bad. It was the right size for me, and acceptable to use as a digging tool/probe due to it's smaller size.

Now days I probably wouldn't use my knife for that, but there are times when you have to press your knife into service if it's the only thing you have.

 

[Zip06]

Well I have but I usually sharpen a stick. I also prefer my Becker Companion which is durable enough to do double duty in a host of roles if needed. Simply a question of overkill.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

A shovel is made out of very cheap steel, with a very poor heat treat and generally crappy QC. If it isn't abusive to the shovel it should not be to a large tactical/survival knife.

This of course assumes that by digging you mean prying or loosening up dirt, if you mean hacking into or trying to chop rocks in half, that will do the job on a knife edge,but just blunt it, the knife should not break in half or anything.

Any survival knife which can't do this certainly is not capable of chopping or the like which can readily general far higher impact stresses - just consider the relative velocities.

Digging with a knife vs a stick usually has its merits in very boggy / roots soil, where you need to actually "cut" the ground, a knife is also much more functional for cutting sod, etc. .

You can buy knives designed for just this, they usually have one serrated edge and one fine, and have very wide blades, common in Japan.

-Cliff

 

[ras]

A shovel is made out of very cheap steel, with a very poor heat treat and generally crappy QC. If it isn't abusive to the shovel it should not be to a large tactical/survival knife. ...
-Cliff

I'm not worried about dulling the edge of a shovel; it has a rounded edge to start with and the cheap steel used is usually very tough so that when it does encounter a rock it doesn't chip.

Encountering rocks isn't planned. You just find them while digging, either with a shovel or with a knife. The difference is after you hit one with a shovel, it's still a shovel. After you hit one with a knife, the edge may take a lot of work to return it to doing "knife" duties. A small shovel makes a lot of sense, although in a survival situation, the knife may need to do it regardless of possible damage.

 

[myopicmouse]

A knive is to cut. A spade is to dig.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

If you hit a rock with a survivial knife the edge should not chip, the entire edge doesn't go blunt either, just that one spot, there is no need to sharpen the knife to fix that one spot, use the other part of the edge.

Large knives / machetes have to be able to hit rocks and with far greater impact that when digging, because you can easily be hacking through brush and smash into something accidently.

There is also the rather basic point that lots of knives can do this without damage so why use inferior tools.

Of course if your survivial knife is 1/16" thick, hollow ground made from 1095 at 66 HRC, then no, don't dig with it, but then again a lot of "survival" tasks are out with that as well.

-Cliff

 

[Survivalboy]

Why take a chance with your knife when its really easy to make a digging stick. Most heavy duty knives are up to the task, but why risk a chance dulling, or chipping the edge?

Just my 2 cents

SB

 

[ras]

...
There is also the rather basic point that lots of knives can do this without damage so why use inferior tools. ...

Considering that the job in question is digging, I don't consider a shovel to be an inferior tool. You can move a lot more dirt more efficiently with a small shovel than with a Fehrman FJ, Hood Hunter or most any other rather expensive wilderness knife.

 

[Brian Jones]

"You can move a lot more dirt more efficiently with a small shovel than with a Fehrman FJ..."

Raz,

I read this and thought, what the heck, let me test it out.

Just a couple minutes ago, I took an entrenching tool and dug a post hole, tried it with a trowel, and then used a Fehrman First Strike and a Fehrman Last Chance (7.5" & 5.5" blades respectively). I figured you were right.

Because of the stoutness of the 7.5" knife, and the width of the blade from spine to edge, and the length of it, I actually dug fastest and most comfortably with the 7.5" First Strike!

Of course, this is unscientific, just a quickie test, but it really worked best. If you're digging a foxhole or a 4-6 foot-long firebed, the shovel will probably still work best.

Just for fun....

~Brian.

 

[ras]

...
Just a couple minutes ago, I took an entrenching tool and dug a post hole,

Brian, for digging post holes, I use a post hole digger, (two handles, two blades with a hinge). The hole is dug faster and best of all straight and deep. No need to widen the hole at the top to make room to reach down, you get to stay upright for the hole job. It's always best to choose the right tool.
Besides, where I've dug post hole, I always hit rocks...

 

[MelancholyMutt]

 

[ROCK6]

Cliff, you make a pretty good point...but I've done some pretty aggressive digging with E-tools and regular shovels it a varied type of medium from a root infested jungle floor, frozen Korean mountainsides, rocky desert terrain on two contients and the four corners of the US, I would think that if the digging is hard enough to chip or ding a softer shovel, you could really dull and possible chip a harder-tempered blade edge. Of course the knicks in a good blade would be localized, constant digging would lesson the applicabitliy of a blade desinged to chop and cut (sure, if you have a good steel and sharpening kit, that would be a moot point minus a few cosmetic blemishes).

For those that always use one knife for all tasks...more power to you . Of course that's a better method of practicing what you preach, I would still much rather use a good blade as a digger just to see how it performs, just so I know what it can do when I may really need it to...but, relegate the task of digging to an appropriate tool. The best warranty in the world doesn't do diddly when you're in the middle of no where with a massive blade failure...remember Mr. Murphy

I agree with ras...if you're digging to move dirt (i.e. making a hasty shelter), a shovel will easily over shadow a knife. If you're digging roots and what not on a smaller more accurate scale, I could see using a knife blade would be more appropriate and may actually conserve energy better.

I also think that a quality knife is more usefull "making" tools to do the right job. I'll use my CS shovel to move coals around the fire for cooking, but I wouldn't like to use my Busse. If you're just digging up roots or grubs in medium-type soil, a good digging stick could work pretty well and efficiently.

My apologies Brian, didn't mean for you to put a fence up around your yard I was just asking for comments not a request for a digging test

I just wonder how much digging is really necessary for a knife vice a shovel? Being a Wilderness Survival Forum, I don't see much beyond digging an emergency shelter or quick, efficient root/tuber digging...now, if I was under fire in a combat zone, I'd be digging with anything I could get my hands on to include my leatherman or SAK!


ROCK6

 

[mithril]

MelancholyMutt;
Way to go! Is that from the Garrett Wade catalog? If so I have a similar one from them, and a titanium spade from www.dutchguard.com. Works great for light to medium duty digging(especially rooting deep since it's long and thin) but could do the heavier stuff(like foxholes) too. Also if one or both edges are sharpened, it makes a nasty temporary thrusting longblade(ala Cold Steel's Asagai). For serious digging though, I prefer an entrenching tool with folding shovel and spade.

Mith.

 

[ROCK6]

Hey Mithril, what's the weight of that titanium spade? Looks pretty handy...

ROCK6