How much $$ down for a custom knife?

S

ShadowMan

Joined
Jul 18, 1999
Messages
32
I haven't made a post in quite a while...been out of the country. Anyways, I've been thinking about this one while I've been gone--

How much money (percentage of agreed price) should the buyer have to pay up front?

I have the utmost respect for the custom knife maker and I understand the financial constraints under which they must work. So, theoretically, I wouldn't have a problem with putting 100% down, BUT...
in my experience, the more money I put down, the longer the knife takes to get to me! If any of you have had this experience, you probably know how frustrating it can be.


note: I am not talking about shoddy unscrupulous makers--I have had this experience with some of the finest and most respected knife makers out there.


[This message has been edited by ShadowMan (edited 26 December 1999).]
 
Well, I don't know the exact "rules" but I have put down 100$ for custom knives ranging from 450 to 875. When I placed an order for 3 knives totaling (gulp) 3600$ I put 1000$ down (pretty close to the price of the 1st knife. I added another roughly similarly priced knife to the order and (I guess) I will just pay for the others as I get them. But I have never had to wait REALLY long periods for knives except for certain INFI blades
rolleyes.gif


I think the main idea is to put enough down to commit the maker, allow him to pay for some reasonable fraction of the materials and feel plenty safe should you scratch on your order. The less readily saleable your order is, the higher the deposit. So, when you get a famous maker to build a diamond encrusted OTF with your girlfrieds initials in rubies you would pay a LOT of it down. If you want a relatively standard Johnny Stout folder I'd expect a lower percentage down... because the 1st maker may have a difficult time reselling that piece and the esteemed Mr. Stout will have little trouble selling his wares.

Other fators would include 1)the cost of specialized materials the maker doesn't usually carry, experimental materials (okay, an oosic handle and a spent uranium bolster..)2) the actual delivery time expected... I think you would pay 100% if the knife is delivered in 3 weeks, but maybe little or nothing if it won't be started for a year 3) how well you know the maker
and how everybody's finances are working. Hey, I've got some cash now, I'll put 700$ down on that 1200$ custom because who knows what next Spring brings (or) I want to put 100$ down because I am busted and the bonus doesn't show up until 4/1/00 !



------------------
Dances with lemmings

 
Shadow, thats the very reason I don't take deposits. If you already have the cash in your pocket, two things happen. You lose a little of the motivation to get the blade delivered because you already have the money, and also, when you do deliver it, it's like you're not making anything. Bad for both the maker and buyer. Take care! Michael

------------------
"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"

 
My policy: For standard models, no deposit. For Customer Designs, I may ask the cost of materials $20-$200, depending on the knife. THAT'S IT!!!!

RJ Martin
 
R.J.'s policy seems to be a good way to go. When I start asking a maker to do something different or to design something unique, I am eating into his or her time and cash flow.
I feel that those expenses should be taken care of as they occur as much as possible.

------------------
"Life is too short to carry an ugly knife." Steve F.
 
Quite a timely thread!

I recently was told by a popular custom auto maker that he had a "slot" open (a customer had dropped out), and with full payment he would have the knife in 10 days, guaranteed! That day a MO went in the mail.

Three months later he said my 10 days were just about up (guess this was in dog years)!!! Knowing full well that the quality of the finished product has a direct correlation with the motivation of the maker...not much you can do!

Just my experience and my lesson...YMMV!

-Michael



------------------
Chefget's Knife Page


 
I am a Knifemaker and on the normal stuff I do not get a deposit but the stuff that is weard I get 75% up frount and if the knife is not deliverd on the date I guarentee it you get 25% back or off and I have put it in writing I haven't missed one yet Tank.
 
I personally require a deposit on every order. I do this, because I have been burned. It should also be noted, that I have only ever been late on a delivery date 2 times, and never by more than 2 days (holidays were involved both times). I do not require full payment in advance, but I have found that it makes things easier for all involved if done. Orders that are prepaid, usually go out early. Orders that have remaining balances almost always take the full delivery time.

My two cents,

------------------
Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Martin on this one. Unless it is customized, I don't really see the need for a depsit at least not anything more than $20 dollars. Another thing, I would add is I don't really see the need for a deposit until the maker begins work on your blade--a practice I know Rob Simonich practices and I believe Mr. Martin does as well. Then again at that point I guess full payment would do just as well. Putting down a real large deposit or even paying full price can be real scary, even if the maker is reputable. Now, I myself am only 16 and so when I buy a knife it is usually after saving for a quite a while and so I always get scared when puttin down money for a blade that isn't available right away. I remember when I ordered my Busses, they had me pay for both right away and then you begin hearing stories of real late deliveries and you a bit worried.
Anyways, sorry for rambling and hope what I just wrote makes since to someone besides myself.

thanks and take care
collin
 
I'm going to be ordering my first custom in Jan. I met the maker at the NYCKS, I was very impressed with his work and his prices. He told me he prefers to sell his pieces off the table at shows, but I was looking for something just a little different. He said for a true custom he requires a 50% deposit and there would be about a six month wait, his priority is having knives ready for his next show. I really have no problem with this as long as I know what the ground rules are up front. Since I am looking for something a little different from his standard work I am sending him my drawings, and my sugggestions, I did offer an intial deposit for his drawings and feedback, just to show him I am serious and understand that I know his time is valuable. Should we not come to a meeting of the minds that money would be his. Does this seem fair to you folks?
 
I have several cusoms on order, with deposits ranging from nothing to half the total price. I don't mind placing a large deposit on a knife as long as the maker is reputable and the wait isn't overly long. I don't mind putting half down on a knife I'll receive in 3 or 4 months, but if the wait is 2 years (as it is with two items on my list, with no deposits) I'd really hesitate to lock up any money in a deposit for that long.

Ryan




------------------
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
RJ is right on. (again) Standard models are always for sale. If you're fortunate enough to have a backlog, deposits may be a way to sort this out, but this hasn't happened to me. A lot of makers just put you on a list. When your time roles up, you get the knife.

If a custom order goes south, at least your not out materials cost, and a deposit tends to keep the customer interested. I don't promise any time frame that I can't clearly make. I tried it once and missed the mark. The customer understood, but I felt bad for it. My line of work (the one that pays the bills) may get crazy at any moment, and becoming motivated during those times can be difficult, and nobody should want a knife made because "it had to be there yesterday."

------------------
Chris Hatin
hatintec@dellnet.com

www.geocities.com/chrishatin/hatintec.html
 
On regular models I take a $25 only non refundable deposit. This pays for the calling or writing cost when I notify the client it is time to start. Sometimes I may have to call several times to reach the person. However the deposit also covers the cost of my newsletter that goes out to my clients while waiting on their order. The newsletter is supposed to go our quarterly around here. That has been the best tool to keep in touch with each other.

One of a kind or special pieces down payments vary. All swords are a nonrefundable $500. deposit. On artistic pieces once I start payments are allowed. I do not like to get payments on pieces ahead of time on normal pieces.
Artistic pieces always get materials up front for instance I want to start a very nice piece this year and will have to have material cost up front which will be approx. $60,000. Balance due at completetion which will be less than 6 months from deposit.
 
I, Like Mr. Fisk, require a $25 non-refundable deposit on what I call "standard" knives. Exotic materials require the cost of the material(s), and customer designs require full payment. At one time I did not take any deposits, but as things have gotten busier for me over the years, I have found that even $25 will keep most interested so I don't wind up "eating" the time spent. Just about any knife will sell at some point, but there are times when "some point" is not as soon as I would like it to be. The notion of full payment for customer designs is deep rooted I suppose, as I always seem to do my best work when I'm being creative, and not being limited by a specific design.
http://www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey

------------------
Ed Caffrey
"The Montana Bladesmith"


 
I usually ask for 25% of the total cost or the cost of the materials, which ever is greater. That way if the buyer gets "lost" I only lose my time and I still have the chance to sell the knife to someone else. I've only had that happen a few times and I always try to contact the buyer and make sure there are no extenuating circumstances. If the person is a regular customer, I sit on the knife until all is well with them again.

------------------
Jake Evans,War Chief of the Terrible Ironic HORDE, Wielder of the Mighty Blade SOUL STEALER
 
I avoid deposits if I can because it makes me feel guilty if I am delayed completing the knife. The exception is when materials are specified that I do not normally carry or the design will make the knife difficult to sell to another customer if the inital customer does not come through. Deposits in these cases will be the special material costs or $25.

------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
My opinion is that a deposit should not be more than 20% unless the custom order is so unusual or the materials are so expensive that it would burden the maker to have to front the cost of materials.My main concern would be what if I had paid in full $700.00 for a knife and my two month wait now turned into a year or more wait.It is a long time to have money tied up earning someone else interest on my cash.The worst case scenerio what happens if God forbid something happens to the maker unless they have someone to look after their interests and kept good records how would you go about getting your money refunded. A potential problem I've alway's wondered how it was handled.Thanks,RS
 
Interesting Thread. Even more interesting is the level of deposit that is required by the established makers as compared to some of the newer makers.

If the knife is a standard model, you pay a $0.00 deposit.

Barring a knife that is jewel and gold encrusted, the max deposit should be 25%.

If you are asking for something that only you and a blind person would think is beautiful, expect to pay a 100% deposit.

The problem with paying some knifemakers any deposit of 25% is that they do not put that money into escrow. That is to say, the money is not spent until he/she starts working on your knife.

Your deposit (especially if over 25%) is not used for materials on your knife. It is used for food and to pay the house bills. It is easy for any of us to live on 150% of our salary.

However, the same cannot be said for 50% of our salary.

What has happened and will continue to happen. Is makers who take large deposits or the full amount spend your money on other things. Well if the demand for their knives slow down, then that 150% salary starts to dwindle.

So instead of working on your knife which is half or totally paid for. The maker works on the new order which he has not been paid for.
The new customer gets his knife, you get excuses.

Why? Because some makers now view that they are making the knife for free. It's more a mental thing than an accounting thing. However, the fact remains that upon completion of that knife, the maker will receive no money.

As Chefget pointed out, he waited 3 months for his 10 days to be over. How can that be?

Guys from an investment point of view, that is a maker whose work is not going to be a good investment long term. Don't reward makers for poor business practices.

Every long time collector I know has horror stories about makers and delivery times. Just as every long time maker has horror stories about customers. No matter what, there is always that 10%.

Les
 
I take the $25.00 non refundable down on any order that is placed with me by someone I do not know. Once I have delivered a knife a deposit on anything other that a high end piece is not required. Because I will know by then how the client is. plus or minus. Also if it is always $25.00 I do not have to look up each one each time.

I have seen several good makers go out of the business by taking too much money up front. And Les is right if you do take it have an account set up and leave it alone. I simply return the money if it is paid up front. I prefer the client to schedule his payment in the same way that I should schedule the making.

One of the draw backs that I have, and there are many, is that I cannot give a exact delivery date. Since I have been in the knife field I have always given active duty people special treatment. I try to keep my prices low as possible so I cannot give them a cut rate. One thing I can do is give it to them sooner. Neither do they pay any type of deposit. Instead of the normal 3-3 1/2 year wait active duty people get the knife in less than 3 months. So it is hard to give a date due to I do not know what comes in from them. They do their part so I try to help where I can. Active duty includes Military, police, firemen.
 
I don’t think that 30% down is out of line, and have gone as high as 50% at times. What I don’t ever do is place an order for a knife that I cannot pay for in full at any given time.

------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top