How much stronger is an identically sized framelock made in Titanium compared to

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Folderguy

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How much stronger is an identically sized framelock made in Titanium compared to stainless steel?

Is there a world of difference?
 
titanium is normally used because it offers advantages in weight and wear resistance.
 
well, yes and no.

it has a better memory than steel, so once it flexes it has more of a tendency to return.

(all things being equal the tensile strength is higher.) *ignore his part, read yab's post*


someone else can give a more detailed explanation, but i would say the short answer is yes.
 
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By weight, yes. By volume, no. Steel of equal thickness will be stronger but much heavier. Titanium is generally used much thicker, but it still weighs less. According to Sal Glesser, the titanium Reeve Integral Lock Military is designed and built to the same breaking strength as the steel liner lock version of the knife.
 
The titanium has a higher strength to weight ratio than steel. Steel is still stronger overall. Sort of like power lifters. One weighs 150lbs the other weighs 300lbs. The 150 pounder lifts 300lbs the 300 pounder lifts 450lbs. The 150 pounder is lifting 2x his body weight the 300 pounder is only lifting 1.5x his body weight.
 
yablanowitz said:
According to Sal Glesser, the titanium Reeve Integral Lock Military is designed and built to the same breaking strength as the steel liner lock version of the knife.
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I hadn't heard that, that's interesting. I know some people feel framelocks have the advantage of being reinforced by grip, whereas a linerlock does not. Would like to see how they compare after a few years of usage, if the thicker titanium wears better than the stronger steel.
 
You can find an answer to that in the Spyderco sub-forum. TazKristi just announced they are putting a steel insert in the lockbar of the TiRIL Military to keep them from wearing out so fast.
 
Not quite the same issue with the spyderco lock thing. Reference the sebenza it is a titanium frame lock that also rest against a S30V tang and those locks last pretty long as CRK hardens the end of the lock bar or lock bar face.

Also do not be fooled titanium has greater wear resistance than steel, the military has done some materials testing with different steels and titanium with sand and titanium was the clear winner. Basically sand and wind will eat a way a piece of stainless or carbon steel before it will a same sized piece of titanium. The lock bar issue can be solved easily enough, either by increasing the angle on the tang to say 12 degrees and by making the lock bar face larger and machined to a tighter tolerance so that the entire surface area of the lock bar marries perfectly with the lock cut on the tang. The add in the heating of the lock bar face and whamo, you don't need a piece of steel as most folders don't again reference sebenza, buck mayo, mission, strider, etc.

Titanium is the ultimate in bend don't break material it is very TOUGH because it is somewhat softer than most steels used for knives and knife handles. Where steel will snap, crack, fissure, fracture, chip out titanium will for the most part bend and return to its original position probably with little or no damage and will do so repeatedly.
 
yablanowitz said:
TazKristi just announced they are putting a steel insert in the lockbar of the TiRIL Military to keep them from wearing out so fast.
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This, in conjunction with her comments, is strong evidence that the Ti does not wear as well as steel.
 
powernoodle said:
This, in conjunction with her comments, is strong evidence that the Ti does not wear as well as steel.
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i can tell you this:

last week i was refinishing a couple knives. one was an emerson with ti liners, the other was a cold steel.

i was only using wet/dry emery paper, and the steel lockbar on the cold steel was easy to refinish. granted, it is not hard steel, nor does this piece require a high grade metal.

with the ti liners, totally different story. not sure what i expected, but it took hours just to remove the machining marks on the visible portion of the liners. i used a dremel on this one, then sanded to make the finish even. that ti just tore up the emery paper.
 
Your not dealing with wear with these locks as much you are "plastic deformation of metals". You have the same amount of titanium on the locking side of the handle what has happened is that the metal has deformed and lost some of its shape. I have had this happen before and it can be fixed rather easily by pinging the inside surface of the lock side of the handle near the lock bar face. This essentially moves the material back to where it belongs.

Take two pieces same size of your choice of steel say S30V and 6Al4V and sand blast it and see which one starts to shrink first and shrink more rapidly it is going to be the steel. Abrasion resistance is one of the five components that combine to make up what is deemed "wear resistance". Keep in mind were talking about alloyed forms of titanium and not pure titanium which is soft it won't even register on Rockwell C, maybe on Vickers or Brinell but not Rockwell C.

Hardness and wear resistance or not the same thing and though it goes against the technical grain it is possible to have a softer material that has greater wear resistance.
 
Titanium & titanium alloys have low wear resistance and needs surface treatments to reduce galling and fretting. People like the 'stiction' of a Ti lock, but this is also what tears up tools and abrasive media.
 
Thank you Morimotom for some anecdotal evidence, proves my point exactly. Titanium is incredibly abrasion resistant to the point of being very difficult to machine, one of the reason that knives with it as a material in their construction or so expensive. Titanium is a Mother to work with.


Case in point take two knife handles one stainless steel and one titanium go down to the beach and rub em in the sand, the titanium handle is just going to get shiny, smooth and pretty. The steel handle is going to get scratched with little erosion channels cut into the surface by the grains of sand.
 
I've got some data on titanium wear resistance at my office I'll see if I can't scan it in tomorrow at some point and upload here.
 
MikeC said:
Not quite the same issue with the spyderco lock thing. Reference the sebenza it is a titanium frame lock that also rest against a S30V tang and those locks last pretty long as CRK hardens the end of the lock bar or lock bar face.

Also do not be fooled titanium has greater wear resistance than steel, the military has done some materials testing with different steels and titanium with sand and titanium was the clear winner. Basically sand and wind will eat a way a piece of stainless or carbon steel before it will a same sized piece of titanium. The lock bar issue can be solved easily enough, either by increasing the angle on the tang to say 12 degrees and by making the lock bar face larger and machined to a tighter tolerance so that the entire surface area of the lock bar marries perfectly with the lock cut on the tang. The add in the heating of the lock bar face and whamo, you don't need a piece of steel as most folders don't again reference sebenza, buck mayo, mission, strider, etc.

Titanium is the ultimate in bend don't break material it is very TOUGH because it is somewhat softer than most steels used for knives and knife handles. Where steel will snap, crack, fissure, fracture, chip out titanium will for the most part bend and return to its original position probably with little or no damage and will do so repeatedly.
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Great info, thanks.
 
IIRC, titanium frame/liner locks will also be less likely to slip out of position, since it galls very easily. When pressure is applied between the blade tang and the lock, titanium will stick on the steel of the blade as opposed to sliding off of it. This property of titanium is why you never see titanium hinges, etc, that are uncoated.
 
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