I got an edgepro apex for the holiday season. I have done a few knives with good results, I know there is a small learning curve. How long does it take other people to use this system? when do they switch stones? What angles are people getting hair popping sharp? I took about an hour and a half to do a pm2 it came out great it was the 4th knife I did after slightly messing up an endura 4 to learn on. I'm sure with time I'll get faster.
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How much time do people take with edgepro.
- Thread starter Nate Dog
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Despite you using an edgepro apex it is still on some level using the same concept that we use while free hand sharpening. So the easiest way to find information is to research normal sharpening methods and than apply it to your edgepro, the biggest difference is you shouldn't have as much problem with getting a good consistancy in your edges like you do when you first learn to free hand. Wish I could answer your questions more, I understand the concept but not well enough to explain it properly so I let someone else do that. But check out the stickies on this subforum it should help you a bit, and if it's a bit above your head don't worry it was for me too just give it time and than it starts making sense when you learn more.
With me I own the DMT Aligner in general I use the Aligner for mainly reprofile purposes and occasionally try out a new technique when I want more consistency that the Aligner allows me to have, otherwise I just free hand with the included stones. When I get better at one, I get better at the other as it's not just the skill involved but knowing what is going on when you sharpen and how to apply that knowledge. Best way to get better is by practice, I bought a cheap Victorinox paring knife to practice on. Was well worth the $4 to have something with a decent steel and heat treat to practice on that I don't have to worry about screwing up.
With me I own the DMT Aligner in general I use the Aligner for mainly reprofile purposes and occasionally try out a new technique when I want more consistency that the Aligner allows me to have, otherwise I just free hand with the included stones. When I get better at one, I get better at the other as it's not just the skill involved but knowing what is going on when you sharpen and how to apply that knowledge. Best way to get better is by practice, I bought a cheap Victorinox paring knife to practice on. Was well worth the $4 to have something with a decent steel and heat treat to practice on that I don't have to worry about screwing up.
Are you using the Magic Marker/Sharpie trick? If you match the existing angle, starting with the 220 stone, if shouldn't take long (10 mins. or so). If you decide the angle you desire and reprofile to that, it can take hours.
A knife can be pretty sharp with the 220 stone and really sharp with the 320 or 400.
When to switch depends on the knife. I make sure I have raised a burr and then on the other side. You'll want to switch frequently on the last stone to get rid of the burr.
Good sharpening,
Dave
A knife can be pretty sharp with the 220 stone and really sharp with the 320 or 400.
When to switch depends on the knife. I make sure I have raised a burr and then on the other side. You'll want to switch frequently on the last stone to get rid of the burr.
Good sharpening,
Dave
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A good sharp edge should be obtainable, even to a beginner in 30 minutes. (At 320 grit.)
HOWEVER
Much will depend on your temperament. Are you patient? Are you even a bit obsessive?
When I was new to the Edge-Pro, it was not uncommon for me to spend an entire evening, i.e. three to four hours on a single blade.
It had to be perfect. It had to push cut telephone book paper in both directions easily. And the bevel had to shine as brightly as a Pink Tape could make it shine.
Of course, there was no necessity for this, but it did wonders for my learning of the machine.
Set the angle by the sharpie method, then use a 120 or 180 stone until tyou get a very pronounced burr on the opposite side. Flip the blade over, grind off the butt, and continue sharpening until you get a burr on the first side.
Change to the next higher grit and repeat. BTW, an angle cube helps greatly in setting angles when changing stones.
I usually stop raising burrs after 320 grit. A 4X magnifying glass and a bright light will let you see the scratch patterns and let you know if you have reached the edge with that stone. Take your time. Use very light pressure, keep your wits about you, and in a very short time your edges will look, and cut, as well as those done by professional sharpeners.
The stones provided with the Edge-Pro are splendid. But you will eventually want to step up to even better stones. I suggest the Shapton Glass Stones from Chef Knives To Go. Buy one or two at a time until you have a set. I should also say that you won't need the 30,000 grit unless you are as truly fanatical as I am!
HOWEVER
Much will depend on your temperament. Are you patient? Are you even a bit obsessive?
When I was new to the Edge-Pro, it was not uncommon for me to spend an entire evening, i.e. three to four hours on a single blade.
It had to be perfect. It had to push cut telephone book paper in both directions easily. And the bevel had to shine as brightly as a Pink Tape could make it shine.
Of course, there was no necessity for this, but it did wonders for my learning of the machine.
Set the angle by the sharpie method, then use a 120 or 180 stone until tyou get a very pronounced burr on the opposite side. Flip the blade over, grind off the butt, and continue sharpening until you get a burr on the first side.
Change to the next higher grit and repeat. BTW, an angle cube helps greatly in setting angles when changing stones.
I usually stop raising burrs after 320 grit. A 4X magnifying glass and a bright light will let you see the scratch patterns and let you know if you have reached the edge with that stone. Take your time. Use very light pressure, keep your wits about you, and in a very short time your edges will look, and cut, as well as those done by professional sharpeners.
The stones provided with the Edge-Pro are splendid. But you will eventually want to step up to even better stones. I suggest the Shapton Glass Stones from Chef Knives To Go. Buy one or two at a time until you have a set. I should also say that you won't need the 30,000 grit unless you are as truly fanatical as I am!
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I am OCD about thinning edges and getting the edge perfectly centered. So I'm that guy that will spend four hours getting my knife perfect.and that's with a drill rod stop after setting the angle with an angle cube. The included angle dependent on the knife and what I'm going to use it for mainly.
My last project was an S90V Manix2 XL. I thinned the edge to 14 degrees per side with an 18 degree per side micro bevel. It took five hours to go through the grits to 10,000 grit chosera then strop.
My last project was an S90V Manix2 XL. I thinned the edge to 14 degrees per side with an 18 degree per side micro bevel. It took five hours to go through the grits to 10,000 grit chosera then strop.
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I have had mine for about 5 months. First thing I did was watch all the vids on YT I could find. The learning curve for me was about 5 or 6 knives before I started to get the "feel" of the system.
Now, for a simple touch-up it takes me 10-15 minutes. For a complete re-profile it can take anywhere from 30 minutes to over an hour (depending on the blade steel and geometry). As long as you get it reasonably sharp you're doing fine IMHO - doesn't have to be perfect.
Now, for a simple touch-up it takes me 10-15 minutes. For a complete re-profile it can take anywhere from 30 minutes to over an hour (depending on the blade steel and geometry). As long as you get it reasonably sharp you're doing fine IMHO - doesn't have to be perfect.
bodog
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S110V, S60V, and some S30V and S35VN steels take me about two hours to take out a very small chip. Probably 5 hours or more to reprofile more than 5 degrees per side. Touching up and basic resharpening takes about 20 minutes, but I only use one sharpening stone before moving onto the polishing stones, therefore nothing gets roughed up to badly and I don't need to spend much time on it.
154CM and other easy to work steels take me maybe one hour to repair a chip and maybe two hours to reprofile. Don't really need the edgepro to touch these up, strops work fine on their own with little hassle.
I normally get the edges as perfect as I can make them before going to the strops. If I'm doing a buddy's field or duty knife and he and I don't care about a mirror finish, then I only need two stones, a 220 and 400 grit SIC stone and that takes maybe 15 minutes unless it's really beat up, then maybe 30 minutes.
Those are knives that range from three to four inches. Kitchen or camp knives that are more like 7 or 8 inches can double the time, depending on the steel and how damaged it is and how polished I want to go. In the past it's taken me two days to fix up an old 7 inch AUS6 cold steel SEAL 2000 because of how bad it had been beaten on, how much I needed to fix the uneven grind, how thick the blade is, and because I wanted it mirror finished. Last night it took me about two hours to do the same thing on a very, very dull, thin 6.5 inch 8CR kitchen knife, and it was almost perfectly mirrored when I was done with it and now cuts like a laser.
I guess I'm saying there are different factors to consider.
Anyway, I work each stone until there is a burr raised evenly across the edge, or the edge bevel is uniform, whichever is required, then slow down and make sure the scratch marks are pretty consistent which takes a couple of even strokes, flip to the other side and repeat. By the time I get to the polishing stones, about 800 grit, I'm not looking for a burr anymore, I'm looking for consistent scratch marks across the entire bevel, from end to end and from primary grind to the apex. As soon as I'm pretty sure that's accomplished, I move on to the next stone. Each knife will dictate how long you stay with each stone.
I only use a sharpie marker for the initial stone to ensure the angles match up. After that I watch the scratch pattern.
As far as the angles, I go with my gut. If the knife is from a quality maker, then I generally just match the original grind unless there's a compelling reason to change it. If the grind is crap or I want something different than what the manufacturer did, then I test different angles and find one I like that works well. Testing and changing angles through trial and error is better for me than going in with a predetermined angle. I find that I end up doing the same trial and error testing but then I have to worry about keeping the angle juuussst sooo, and it doesn't add any value to me. I can eyeball a grind to where it looks even to me and most other people that look at it, and I'm to the point where I know what the knife is going to be used for so I can guess pretty accurately the necessary angle without being worried about angle cubes and all that. It doesn't matter to me if it's 30 degrees inclusive or 32, or 34. There's not much difference in capabilities at such low angle differences. With a little practice you can rough it, do you want an fairly acute angle? A more acute angle? Or a very acute angle? It's given me good results so far without any unnecessary headaches.
154CM and other easy to work steels take me maybe one hour to repair a chip and maybe two hours to reprofile. Don't really need the edgepro to touch these up, strops work fine on their own with little hassle.
I normally get the edges as perfect as I can make them before going to the strops. If I'm doing a buddy's field or duty knife and he and I don't care about a mirror finish, then I only need two stones, a 220 and 400 grit SIC stone and that takes maybe 15 minutes unless it's really beat up, then maybe 30 minutes.
Those are knives that range from three to four inches. Kitchen or camp knives that are more like 7 or 8 inches can double the time, depending on the steel and how damaged it is and how polished I want to go. In the past it's taken me two days to fix up an old 7 inch AUS6 cold steel SEAL 2000 because of how bad it had been beaten on, how much I needed to fix the uneven grind, how thick the blade is, and because I wanted it mirror finished. Last night it took me about two hours to do the same thing on a very, very dull, thin 6.5 inch 8CR kitchen knife, and it was almost perfectly mirrored when I was done with it and now cuts like a laser.
I guess I'm saying there are different factors to consider.
Anyway, I work each stone until there is a burr raised evenly across the edge, or the edge bevel is uniform, whichever is required, then slow down and make sure the scratch marks are pretty consistent which takes a couple of even strokes, flip to the other side and repeat. By the time I get to the polishing stones, about 800 grit, I'm not looking for a burr anymore, I'm looking for consistent scratch marks across the entire bevel, from end to end and from primary grind to the apex. As soon as I'm pretty sure that's accomplished, I move on to the next stone. Each knife will dictate how long you stay with each stone.
I only use a sharpie marker for the initial stone to ensure the angles match up. After that I watch the scratch pattern.
As far as the angles, I go with my gut. If the knife is from a quality maker, then I generally just match the original grind unless there's a compelling reason to change it. If the grind is crap or I want something different than what the manufacturer did, then I test different angles and find one I like that works well. Testing and changing angles through trial and error is better for me than going in with a predetermined angle. I find that I end up doing the same trial and error testing but then I have to worry about keeping the angle juuussst sooo, and it doesn't add any value to me. I can eyeball a grind to where it looks even to me and most other people that look at it, and I'm to the point where I know what the knife is going to be used for so I can guess pretty accurately the necessary angle without being worried about angle cubes and all that. It doesn't matter to me if it's 30 degrees inclusive or 32, or 34. There's not much difference in capabilities at such low angle differences. With a little practice you can rough it, do you want an fairly acute angle? A more acute angle? Or a very acute angle? It's given me good results so far without any unnecessary headaches.
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Bodog is correct that angles are not critical.
However, I have many knives, and the use of the angle cube allows me to keep a notebook with all of the data for each knife.
For example, if my EDC Spyderco Military (CPM M-4) needs sharpening, I pull the notebook, and it tells that the edge is beveled at exactly 15.0 degrees. I can therefore set the machine with the cube to 15.0 degrees and it's ready to use.
The notebook also tells me that CPM M-4 will get it's maximum "shine" at .5 micron. Therefore I won't waste time stropping at .25 or .1 micron. My Military in CPM S90V, on the other hand, has an extremely high chromium content and benefits considerably from .1 or even finer stropping.
The beauty of the Edge-Pro is that it's adaptable to rough crude, but useable, sharpening, or as much refinement as you wish, or anything in between.
However, I have many knives, and the use of the angle cube allows me to keep a notebook with all of the data for each knife.
For example, if my EDC Spyderco Military (CPM M-4) needs sharpening, I pull the notebook, and it tells that the edge is beveled at exactly 15.0 degrees. I can therefore set the machine with the cube to 15.0 degrees and it's ready to use.
The notebook also tells me that CPM M-4 will get it's maximum "shine" at .5 micron. Therefore I won't waste time stropping at .25 or .1 micron. My Military in CPM S90V, on the other hand, has an extremely high chromium content and benefits considerably from .1 or even finer stropping.
The beauty of the Edge-Pro is that it's adaptable to rough crude, but useable, sharpening, or as much refinement as you wish, or anything in between.
bodog
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Yea, I tried measuring the angles when I first got it, but then I realized that I do just as well matching the angle with a sharpie if I don't want to change it. Like you, I keep a notepad with different tips for different knives, like how many inches between the base and the handle, random stuff like that that can't be easily replicated every time. As far as the level of refinement, I never thought about wasting time going lower. I've noticed it, but thought it was my technique rather than the steel not taking a super shine.
Thanks for all the feed back I know feel I'm getting the most out of edgepro. I've found that I have to pay more attention to the tip and the base of the blade when I try to go to fast. But I get better with every knife not that much faster. I do have one bald arm, and hope my leg hairs grow back before summer lol.
bodog
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Yea, it took me a month or so using it a lot, like once a day, maybe two knives each day, where I got consistently great edges that were as close to mirror as what my stones allow. Before then I would round a tip or not get all parts of the edge with each stone and I had to go back to coarser stones to correct it. I was getting sharp edges from the get go, but as time goes on I get faster and better results. Just stick with it and it'll become easy. I like using a strong magnet underneath to have essentially a third hand. Helps a lot. And tape the blades to keep them from scratching. Some of my knives now have unnecessary scratch marks that could've easily been avoided.
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What would be your tips as far as taping the blade? What type of tape do you use? How close to the edge to you tape? I seen a guy on YT that used very wide yellow tape (not sure what type of tape) and would fold the tape over the spine of the knife cause it to go past the edge. He then used what appeared to be a razor to cut along the edge. I thought this would be a great idea but I would probably scratch the knife.
When I did my Techno on the EP, i didnt tape it all the way to the edge but covered most of the knife. When i was done, I had smudges on both sides of the knife that I cant figure out how to remove. The smudges are where the tape ended and the blade was exposed. I dont know what caused this either.
bodog
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Blue painters tape. I run a piece up each side and the spine covering almost everything but the edge. I don't get all technical with using a razor or whatever, I just tear off what needs to be removed. I depending on the knife, cover the thumbstuds and the part of the handle that might come in contact with a stone. The painters tape hasn't left any glue behind that I've seen and is easy to remove.
The painters tape that I have is the quick release kind and it's horrible when it gets wet, downright useless both on the table and on the blade. I use masking tape now for both and they work much better. I've even used scotch tape on the blade and I thought it may have worked better than the masking tape. Be careful when taping blades that rust easier though as the moisture will stay trapped under there.
As far as time spent, it depends on the steel and how far you want to go. I can get phonebook paper push cutting edges off 120 and 220 grit, but I like a nice polish. For a touchup at a mid grit and going no further, that can be done in less time than it takes to get everything set up. AUS8, 154CM, VG10, S30V are not bad. M4 proved to be a challenge reprofiling to 15 DPS, having to stop midway through the 220 grit stone and leveling/cleaning with SiC because the stone was basically burnishing the steel. The M4 took over a couple hours just to get through 120 and 220 grit, but I stop and check the edge often with a loupe.
As far as time spent, it depends on the steel and how far you want to go. I can get phonebook paper push cutting edges off 120 and 220 grit, but I like a nice polish. For a touchup at a mid grit and going no further, that can be done in less time than it takes to get everything set up. AUS8, 154CM, VG10, S30V are not bad. M4 proved to be a challenge reprofiling to 15 DPS, having to stop midway through the 220 grit stone and leveling/cleaning with SiC because the stone was basically burnishing the steel. The M4 took over a couple hours just to get through 120 and 220 grit, but I stop and check the edge often with a loupe.
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That is the reason that I added diamond plates to my Edge Pro. CKTG has quite a variety of diamond plates for the
Edge-Pro.
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New to this forum. I found the edge pro concept to be exacting, but LOOOOONG. I just got in a Ken Onion WS and could not be happier. I now sharpen 10 knives, with a brighter mirror polish in less time than I was taking on one knife. The convex edge lasts longer than the results I was getting with the EP.