How much would decent tools cost?

T

TheSolitaryTraveller

Joined
May 26, 2013
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This is something I wonder, because I would like to build my own knives since long term it's cheaper that way. But the thing I wonder is how much would it cost to get the tools to make a design multiple times with consistent results. The reason I say that is because if I do get a design built I feel it has to be tested for flaws and improvements, thus if each one built is different that kinda ruins the results.

Anyways how much would you guys say decent tools/equipment would cost for dealing with the process of building a blade from start to finish? Also just wondering since it appears that the tools/equipment are rather simple in design, would it be insane to build my own or is that just a waste of time?
 
If you want a basic shop that can get the job done here's what you need
Grinder- 2x72 is what you want. A basic KMG is about 1500. You will want to add more accessories as you go. I have about 2600 in my KMG but I have some unnecessary parts like a rotary platen. The 2x42 craftsman for $169 at sears can be used but it is underpowered and will take you forever to grind with. I used mine for one knife before I decided to upgrade.
Drill press - this can vary alot but be prepared to spend about 400 for a good one.
Band saw- get a Porta Band from DeWalt. It's about 300 or so.
Files and vice inexpensive and easy obtain but necessary

You will end up needing lots of little things alog the way. I have a KMG, a 2x42 craftsman, 4x36, and 1x30 grinder, a massive 1.5HP drill press, band saw, scroll saw, tile saw, arbor press, another small drill press, kydex press, dremmel, etc... And I still want about 5K more in machinery.

My advice is to use a water jet company to cut your blanks. It's only like $10 per knife and it will save you alot of time. Plus you get perfect blanks every time and you can Practice on them.
 
now one the 2x42 when you say underpowered do you just mean a weak motor, because if so thats an easy thing to upgrade. if not can you explain? Also if I made would of a water jet service wouldn't that almost negate the need for a band saw since thats typically used to cut out the blanks?
 
People do upgrade the craftsman but I think it would be difficult to upgrade the motor because its basically a bench grinder with a 2 wheel grinder attachment on one side. Also the 2x42 belt selection is not the best. You can find just about anything in 2x72.

And you still need a band saw to cut handle material, metal pins and tube etc... You can do all that with a hack saw but its inaccurate and slow-- and mainly just very frustrating.

The setup I listed is just an ideal one for really getting work done. Tons of guys get by with much less. If you have a $39.99 Harbor freight 1X30, a $120 drill press, and a hack saw you can make a good knife. (And then there are guys who make them with files and sandpaper)But its very slow and you can get better results with the better equipment.

Knifemaking is expensive and it will always cost more than you think it will even if you consider that it will cost more than you plan. But the good news is all the tools you buy last a long time and are great for other projects.
 
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Edit- sorry pms today I guess. Read my post and sounded assholeish.

Equipment is expensive and this isn't easy. Just be prepared for disappointment and learning by failure. It takes a while to get even OK at this... Time and patience and willingness will get you there though.
 
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Getting good equipment is just the start. You can figure to complete 50 knives or so and still be disappointed with what you are making. This is a hands on thing with the help of good machinery. If you want to start off with good equipment that will allow you to move ahead as you keep proceeding you will have to spend about $12,000-$15,000 You will need, to go the way you are wanting to go, one or two belt grinders a surface grinder, a milling machine, several drill presses several hand fulls of files, many, many drill bits, taps and some reamers as well as a couple of thousand dollars worth of sanding belts for the grinders. And that doesn't give you any of the good materials to work with. On the other hand you may be talking of the often usual way to start with a handful of files and a hack saw. There is so excellent work being done this way as well. My best to you on your starting out ! I've been at this a long time and still totally enjoy the involvement including helping others. If I had been making for myself to keep I would never have been able to afford the cost to make whatever quality of work I do now. I am also now able to make what I want and still have others buy. Frank
 
A good place to start is to lay down your budget. Like these guys are saying, you can make knives with hacksaws and hand-files that you already have in your garage, or you can buy $20,000 dollars worth of tools. It all depends on what you're willing to spend. As for getting multiple blank exactly the same, a water-jet company would be best, but you could make a blank out of posterbord and trace it onto your steel, and do your best to cut around the lines with whatever you have. You could get good results this way, it'll just take patience.
 
it's kinda funny, as I look at all these items I notice how amazingly simple they are in design. It's funny how items of such simple design can cost so much, kinda make me want to look into them to find out why.
Thou one thing that annoys me if I do go the "do it myself" route is i have to be mindful of size and power, since I live in an apartment complex. Sound isn't an issue since insulating a room to let out less sound is simple. Thou wish I had a friend that worked or ran a machine shop, would be a useful contact.
Will be interesting to see where I go in terms of get stuff built.
 
Working in an apartment complex may not be feasible due to dust.

Every knifemaker fights two battles. One is against the limits of steel, the other is against the dust.
 
If you're looking at doing this to build yourself a few knives they will be the most expensive knives you ever buy. Lets just say you want 20 knives. By the time you spend enough on tools, steel, handle material, abrasives, epoxy, and all the many other misc. expenses I'm guessing a minimum of $10,000.00 that comes to $500 per knife. And depending on how long it takes you to build/buy everything and gain the skill to make a decent knife you're probably looking at 2-3 years. If you only want 10 knives thats $1000 per knife and years of waiting. I'm not trying to discourage you but if you're looking for a few knives at a bargain you would be better off just getting someone here to make what you want. Any decent maker here can make you exactly what you want and can also tell you what will work and what wont. Its what we do.
 
I just read the post about working in an apartment. If a room in an apartment is going to be your "shop" the FIRST thing you need to buy is a GOOD dust collection system. Please don't think I'm being critical, I'm just being honest, by working in an apartment the odds are really stacked against you.
 
Dust can be taken care of through a simple water system, granted it makes some task more difficult but it's a viable solution. A less effective measure would be enclosing the work in a space that air flow can be manipulated with a vacuum system. I've only used the method employing a water system before, well the vacuum one I've only seen used once. Well the water system doesn't have to be water, just a liquid that wont combust and also wont obscure what you are working on.
Thou I will admit I did forget about dust, wish I'm glad you reminded me about. Since fine dust can be a problem depending on the material it's made of like aluminum or wood since both when finely ground and in contact with oxygen can cause a nasty problem.
 
I'm probably going against the grain here but if you "just want to make a knife". You can do it with a couple files, a hacksaw, and a ton of sandpaper. A vice helps but you can clamp a piece of wood to a table and then spring clamp the knife on that. Are you able to work outside the apartment at all? Like on a balcony or something? If so you can get it done out there. It's A LOT of work to make a knife, especially if you're using mostly hand tools and if you haven't made a few hundred. There are pros and cons to using a lot of machinery versus hand tools too. Hand tools will take longer but you can't screw up a knife very quickly with files and sandpaper. A lot of machinery will make the work time much shorter but again much easier to screw something up with a few passes on a grinder. I would say if you just want to take a crack at it, go it with the simple things. If it's a hobby you fall in love with then worry about how much coin you want to drop on it.
 
Ya i have a balcony but I live in a city and the I guess downtown portion or close enough. This is i guess you could say a hobby but a business part of me jumps in, thus why i want to go the extra bit and just not just create a design but make it something that has been ironed out and turned into a sellable product even thou I most likely wont sell because no customer base. Simply put i'm weird.
 
Water works to some extent. But, it is hard to contain it to the fast moving belt and not all belts like water. You will need to seperate out and dump a lot of metal from the water, When grinding I get lots of it just in the tub underneath my grinder, If your going to do this as a business I hope you have a large apartment. Yes the tools are rather simple. I have made a KMG style belt grinder, but, steel cost money as do contact wheels, bearings, bolts, motors, VFDs, etc. Plus I weld or welding would have cost money. I could make belt grinders all day long and would not make much money competing against Rob at Beaumont. I think you are in for a bit of a surprise when you find out the total cost of TIME and materials to make a quality knife and sheath in the business portion of this. Water jet cutting of a pattern is an great time saver. A saw will always be handy, if just to trim up your scale material. Good luck Jim
 
Note what i mean is I feel the need to make a quality item, but if I saw people had interest in it then I don't something like a limited run or hand the design over to someone so they could produce it. I don't mean doing production myself because that would limit my ability to start more projects and just be insane. As for if i can't find the right tools/equipment than i'll design my own, since than i can get everything to be just right. Plus that would give then benefit of helping me relearn everything faster.
Also note if I did sell something I designed the net-gain from it would be like 1-5% simply because I work alone and profit isn't a big deal to me, as long as I know what I designed was good.
 
I tell everyone the same thing:
Get a set of three good files, a big stack of sandpaper, and a few other minor items......about $100.....that's all you need to get started. If you are serious, someone here will give you a piece of steel and probably a piece of handle material.
Make ten knives, all the same, one at a time. Then, if the knives are working out OK, and you still want to keep at it, decide what equipment will work for you.

Living in an apartment is a problem for making knives, but it can be surmounted. Some put their equipment on a rolling cart and roll it outside, others find a friend with some extra garage space, others rent a small garage unit somewhere.

If you haven't read this tutorial, read it through a few times. It covers all the stuff you will need and the work space pretty well.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/694673-How-to-instructions-for-making-a-knife






Before you even start thinking of selling knife designs, you should build a few hundred first.
 
You are overthinking it.Start real simple and just make a knife.After that your path will start to lead you in a direction that all of us here warn you against.Turn back now while you still can.Once you make that first knife,there is no turning back.
Eddie
 
Look, I hate to be the a**hole here. I took the liberty of reading your other posts and whatnot, and think you are putting the cart before the horse.
First, I will bet you will not just buy tools, set up shop (especially in an apartment), and start turning out the best thing since sliced bread without any effort. Your first knives will look like crap, and probably perform even worse. No offense, it is just the way it is. It takes a good deal of time to really get a total grasp of design, performance, and put all of these things in a finished product. This IS NOT going to be a profirable business venture right out of the gate. Even mastersmiths aren't what I would consider well off, and most are just getting the bills paid for the most part.
I personally take offense to the implication that you think you can just step up and do what we all do with the same level of skill and expertise without even a day of practice. Trust me, it may be one of the oldest tools known to man but this is FAR from easy... And I will guarantee if you try to charge money for your blades, and someone says "how long you been making knives?" the answer of "two weeks" will have them walking.... I wouldn't let someone fix my car if they just bought their first set of tools and a haynes manual. Ask a lot of questions and learn from other's mistakes so you don't have to repeat them for yourself as well. Experienced advice is usually free and indispensable....
In defensive tactics the usual quote is 3000 repetitions for something to become muscle memory. Plan on at least that many repetitions on the grinder before you can make a repeatable pass in both directions reliably.
Then there is the dust and noise issue. You won't be able to flood the workspace like a machining process, grinders don't work like that. Nor will you be able to use a vacuum cleaner or even good dust collection system and get every bit of dust. And trust me, metal dust gets everywhere in a hurry and doesn't like to come out. Then there is the noise. A lot of what we do is very noisy. Whether it is the hammer strike of a forfing process or the high speed whir of the belt. I have a neighbor about 1/4 mile away and over a small hill who knows what I do in my shop. He can hear my hammer strikes like nobody's business, and has said he can sometimes hesr my propane forge running if the traffic in the area is light... A couple of eggcrates won't stop that kind of noise...
If you really want this to be your chosen profession, you will need to pay your dues. Go to hammer-ins, find other makers in your area, and practice everything by making some things for yourself. It will come if it is meant to be. And if you make knives that you truly put your heart and sole into you can be proud of what you put out there. I am working on a tactical knife now for a friend, and including wood, cardboard and aluminum examples of the design, a multitude of drawings and fittings and steel testing and selection there is a lot of time spent in the design. I even made three copies to destructively test two... I won't let him stake his life on something I made without being damn sure it won't hold up. You have to make damn sure every knife you make will do exactly what you report it to do, even if it is just to slice tomatoes. Otherwise you will be just another one of the toads that occupy fleabay and the like calling themselves master fartsmiths and selling hacked up poor quality junk as custom knives... All it does is potentially turn a customer who is new to this world and looking for their first quality custom blade away for life. On top of that, customers are hard to please. Every knife you send out needs to be flawless. It has to be as good as or better than a factory blade as that is what they are used to and expecting...
I am not trying to bash you, or to turn you away, but just a dose of reality. This is a learning process and this site is a fantastic resourfe for doing so. Settle in and it will be a helluva ride. I am sure everyone here can tell you what an experience getting started in this is, and tell you how rewarding and satisfying it is to finish your first blade. There is nothing like putting the last touch on a blade and taking it all in...
My suggestion is go get some quality materials (no crap hardware stoor plain steel or old lawnmower blades) a handful of files and a high tension hacksaw with good blades. Make your first knife, start a WIP thread here if you want ongoing input, and let us critique your work. If it meets with the knowledgeable critique here it will probably be good to go...
Good luck and have fun...
 
Decent tools i.e.:

2X72 grinder with accessories and GOOD belts - Priced anywhere from $800 - $3000+

Machinist's square and scriber

Dykem

A drill press (I'm a fan of Craigslist for these myself) and a few selected drills (cheap sets will just piss you off, buy the "small" sizes you need - 1/16, 3/32, 7/64, 1/8, maybe some letter drills and a few reamers etc and save some cash)

A decent, heavy vise bolted to something solid (Maybe a table/workbench). Harbor Freight would do it here IMHO

Several Grobet files - expensive but worth it IMHO.

A Milwaukee.DeWalt portaband and a SWAG offroad stand (worth its weight in gold again YMMV). Again check Craigslist first

A file guide of some sort..................

Lots of wet or dry sandpaper and shoprolls

That said, my contribution(s) assuming you're going to use the files:

1) Before you start filing: graph paper, a sharp 2h pencil and a good eraser are your friends unless you design on your PC of course.

2) Start small and thin - blade length - 3" or so max, 3/32" or 1/8" thick (you'll see almost instant progress with a decent file.

3) Mark the centerline with dark marker and a drillbit, so you know where you're at.

4) Clamp the steel down tight at a comfortable height for yourself. Whether held on a board or with a vise won't matter that much on your first efforts. Pay attention to protruding metal points/edges.

Oohhhh.............. last bit of advice. If your dominant arm/elbow starts to bother/hurt/really ache. Pay attention to that. It's tennis elbow from overuse and will require that you rest it for a few days /weeks (if you ignore it it gets worse. Ask me how I know this........ )

Good luck.

Send us pictures of your progress.

Syn
 
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