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How often should I sharpen
- Thread starter harley45
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 23, 1999
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- 3,831
It depends on what you are doing. If you are a Mohel and perform circumcisions, you should sharpen before each use!
I'm guessign you're talking about your every day carry (EDC) folder or foxed blade. Usually you hear people talk about shaving sharp edges. This edge is impressive, but usually doesn't last all that long. But then your knife will have what is called a workign edge. A working edge won't shave hair off of your arm, but it will still slice wood, cut open cardboard boxes, etc.
A lot of people will tend to over sharpen: AVOID THIS! Once you lose that shaving sharp edge, use the workign edge for a while. Then when you feel your knife starts to drag (it may tear paper instead of cutting it, for example), go back to a fine hone and touch up the edge. Maintain your edge, instead of using your knife to the point that you have to go back and remove a lot of metal.
Good Luck!
I'm guessign you're talking about your every day carry (EDC) folder or foxed blade. Usually you hear people talk about shaving sharp edges. This edge is impressive, but usually doesn't last all that long. But then your knife will have what is called a workign edge. A working edge won't shave hair off of your arm, but it will still slice wood, cut open cardboard boxes, etc.
A lot of people will tend to over sharpen: AVOID THIS! Once you lose that shaving sharp edge, use the workign edge for a while. Then when you feel your knife starts to drag (it may tear paper instead of cutting it, for example), go back to a fine hone and touch up the edge. Maintain your edge, instead of using your knife to the point that you have to go back and remove a lot of metal.
Good Luck!
- Joined
- Oct 1, 1999
- Messages
- 6,490
I really like to sharpen my knives, but understanding that every time you do you're removing steel and shortening the life of the knife. I test for sharpness by first dragging the edge over my thumbnail, if it's sharp it will grab, if it's dull it will slide over the nail. If the edge passes the nail test I try it on the hair on my arm, not shaving hair (you'll end up looking like you have the mange) but just seeing if it grabs the hair. If it passes this test it's as sharp as I need it. If it doesn't, I'll either strop on leather or use a smooth glass to "steel" the blade. This doesn't remove steel it just realigns the edge. If it still isn't sharp I'll use the fine rods of my Sharpmaker 204 and just hone the edge. My plan is to use the least aggressive method to put an edge back on the blade, and don't let them get too dull in the first place.
BTW, Welcome to the Forums
BTW, Welcome to the Forums
Yeah Phil... can you explain the leather strop technique and the glass thing you were talking about in more detail. Is that easy to do? Should I try to get good at that before mastering the Sharpmaker? Do most people say to try that first before throwing it on the Sharpmaker?
Thanks...JT
Thanks...JT
Good suggestions above. The key is to re-sharpen before the blade really becomes "dull". A touch-up here and there will reduce the need to re-profile the edge, resulting in having to take off more steel.
PhilL's thumbnail test will generally tell you if your edge is sharp.
PhilL's thumbnail test will generally tell you if your edge is sharp.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 1999
- Messages
- 6,490
I'm sorry for the confusion, let me see if I can clear it up.
I used to just strop my knives on a piece of leather or even the cardboard back of a writing pad, after sharpening. Just dragging the edge along the surface, it usually doesn't take much to realign the edge if the knife was sharp to start with. Not too long ago I found a butchers steel in an antique shop and I asked on Bernard Levine's forum about it. Everyone I asked about it said not to use it that I needed to get a "Slick" steel, just a hard smooth steel. I was told that in a pinch I could use a smooth sided water glass. Since I always have a glass near my cutting board I started using that, and it works fine. If that doesn't bring back the edge that's when I get the Spyderco 204 out. A couple of swipes on the fine stone is all I need.
I don't know if that's what most people do, but if you've sharpened your knife once, and you haven't let it get totally dull then stropping or steeling (or glassing if you prefer) should realign the edge to hair shaving sharpness.
I used to just strop my knives on a piece of leather or even the cardboard back of a writing pad, after sharpening. Just dragging the edge along the surface, it usually doesn't take much to realign the edge if the knife was sharp to start with. Not too long ago I found a butchers steel in an antique shop and I asked on Bernard Levine's forum about it. Everyone I asked about it said not to use it that I needed to get a "Slick" steel, just a hard smooth steel. I was told that in a pinch I could use a smooth sided water glass. Since I always have a glass near my cutting board I started using that, and it works fine. If that doesn't bring back the edge that's when I get the Spyderco 204 out. A couple of swipes on the fine stone is all I need.
I don't know if that's what most people do, but if you've sharpened your knife once, and you haven't let it get totally dull then stropping or steeling (or glassing if you prefer) should realign the edge to hair shaving sharpness.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 1999
- Messages
- 3,831
What Phil said about using the least abrasive methods to sharpen is correct. A coarse hone removes a lot of metal fast. A fine hone removes some metal slowly, and polishes a blade at the same time. A strop loaded with buffing compound removes a little steel and polishes a lot. It also aligns the edge somewhat. A smooth steel removes (virtually) no metal and aligns the edge a lot.
There's the simple break down. So after your knife loses its bite, try steeling. if that doesn't work, go to your strop. If that doesn't work, go to your fine hone. If that doesn't work, go to the coarse hone and then fine, strop and/or steel.
A steel with lines on it will remove metal. I recommend against getting these. A steel is for aligning an edge, not abrading it. f.Dick makes a great smooth steel. Razor's Edge Systems (of John Juranitch fame) make awesome steels, and a folding one to boot. You can remove the steel rods in the folding steel and place them in your sharpmaker stone grooves.
Hey Phil, tell the bastids I'll be around to chat in a week :')
There's the simple break down. So after your knife loses its bite, try steeling. if that doesn't work, go to your strop. If that doesn't work, go to your fine hone. If that doesn't work, go to the coarse hone and then fine, strop and/or steel.
A steel with lines on it will remove metal. I recommend against getting these. A steel is for aligning an edge, not abrading it. f.Dick makes a great smooth steel. Razor's Edge Systems (of John Juranitch fame) make awesome steels, and a folding one to boot. You can remove the steel rods in the folding steel and place them in your sharpmaker stone grooves.
Hey Phil, tell the bastids I'll be around to chat in a week :')
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- 17,562
Concerning polished steels, they are designed to be used on simple steels that roll quite easily and are not exposed to heavy wear. Many modern cutlery steels contain carbides that will readily abrade the surface of the sharpening steel as they are far harder. Thus your "mirror" surface isn't after the first time it is used. AS well the very high strength of the hard high alloy cutlery steels does not lend them to being steeled readily.
Regarding butchers steels, yes they can act as a file under heavy pressure. However on modern cutlery steels they are again not significantly harder than the blades and significantly softer than the carbides they contain so they will not readily file them. They can be used as a burnisher quite readily. You just use light pressure.
As to the effect steels make, they basically squash the edge over to one side and produce a small hook, the extent of which depends on how much force you extert, the angle of the edge and its strength. This is why they will shave so well opposite to the side on which they were burnished. Note this is not a permanent effect so you want to steel before use.
The cutting ability of the edge also degrades with repeated steeling as unless you are using a guide basically every steeling tends to make the edge more obtuse. Note the v-rod setups don't produce a hook but will actually act to align the edge, I have not used them, Catra sells one as does Razor-Edge.
You will get a much stronger and higher performing edge if you polish the edge lightly on CrO loaded leather or fine SiC (5 micron) sandpaper, coarser of course if you want the edge more aggressive, match it to the grit you honed the edge in the first place. You don't need a lot of work, just a couple of passes to remove the weakened steel that has deformed. Steeling before honing however can vastly speed up the process, however it can make the effects not last very long as the steel will relax back to a deformed state.
Steeling does however have many advantages, probably the biggest one being that you can carry a small steel quite readily and thus induce a gain in cutting ability for a short period of time. The Razor-Edge folding steel being an obvious example which I always carry with me, along with a small rectangular carbide burnisher which can actually remove metal if I use one of the corners.
-Cliff
Regarding butchers steels, yes they can act as a file under heavy pressure. However on modern cutlery steels they are again not significantly harder than the blades and significantly softer than the carbides they contain so they will not readily file them. They can be used as a burnisher quite readily. You just use light pressure.
As to the effect steels make, they basically squash the edge over to one side and produce a small hook, the extent of which depends on how much force you extert, the angle of the edge and its strength. This is why they will shave so well opposite to the side on which they were burnished. Note this is not a permanent effect so you want to steel before use.
The cutting ability of the edge also degrades with repeated steeling as unless you are using a guide basically every steeling tends to make the edge more obtuse. Note the v-rod setups don't produce a hook but will actually act to align the edge, I have not used them, Catra sells one as does Razor-Edge.
You will get a much stronger and higher performing edge if you polish the edge lightly on CrO loaded leather or fine SiC (5 micron) sandpaper, coarser of course if you want the edge more aggressive, match it to the grit you honed the edge in the first place. You don't need a lot of work, just a couple of passes to remove the weakened steel that has deformed. Steeling before honing however can vastly speed up the process, however it can make the effects not last very long as the steel will relax back to a deformed state.
Steeling does however have many advantages, probably the biggest one being that you can carry a small steel quite readily and thus induce a gain in cutting ability for a short period of time. The Razor-Edge folding steel being an obvious example which I always carry with me, along with a small rectangular carbide burnisher which can actually remove metal if I use one of the corners.
-Cliff