How serious is the "no clones" rule in the Exchange?

SpySmasher

SpySmasher

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Just noticed this:

SECTION 3 - Rules for Everyone -

3. Do not list items or offer services that are illegal. This includes counterfeit, clone, and knock off items. We don't want them here, period.
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Do you guys want threads reported where a clone is for sale or should I just go about my business?

General question.
 
Pretty sure it's appreciated to report clones, I have before, I know another member here that had bought a crk 25 clone a few years ago and they didn't realize it until this year, I contacted a mod and they more or less said they were screwed cause to much time had passed. There was proof, the other party(buyer) involved told me to drop it so I did. The seller should have at least been banned, real funny thing is it was a MOD that had pointed out to me the 25 was a fake cause I didn't even realize it myself til started posting pics of it and pointed out crk has never used torx fasteners. Thing is in the sales thread the seller didn't take pics of them so nobody called him out on it, and the buyer was unaware of the no torx also when received. I rarely see clones here, ever, but you should report it, or say something in thread so somebody doesn't wind up with it.
 
SpySmasher said:
Just noticed this:



Do you guys want threads reported where a clone is for sale or should I just go about my business?

General question.
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I definitely would like any clones you see for sale reported.
 
Clones listed as such (this is a Ganzo xxx clone of Benchmade xxx) or clones passed off as the real deal or both?
 
I wondered this myself ... not wanting to crap all over someones sale thread but I tecently noticed a ZT for sale and the box was completely wrong ... I have 3 of that model and all were different from the one listed so I checked with ZT and they confirmed it was a fake box ... so I assume the knife was also.

But I wasn't sure if I'd receive an infraction for hijacking someone's sales thread. So I didn't post ... but I'm glad to say the thread had no responses so others must have noticed too.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
I wondered this myself ... not wanting to crap all over someones sale thread but I tecently noticed a ZT for sale and the box was completely wrong ... I have 3 of that model and all were different from the one listed so I checked with ZT and they confirmed it was a fake box ... so I assume the knife was also.

But I wasn't sure if I'd receive an infraction for hijacking someone's sales thread. So I didn't post ... but I'm glad to say the thread had no responses so others must have noticed too.
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use the report link.
 
Neko2 said:
Clones listed as such (this is a Ganzo xxx clone of Benchmade xxx) or clones passed off as the real deal or both?
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I am curious about something like a Ganzo which gets a lot of flak here but to my knowledge are not illegal so I would think technically they are not a violation.
 
When in doubt, come here to Tech Support and let us know. If the listing is a problem, we'll deal with it, and if not, we'll let you know why it's OK.

Ideally, we wish companies didn't steal ideas, but we have to leave some room for legitimate similarities of design. What we don't want is someone taking a design and calling it their own work. We also don't allow what sellers call "hommages" which are generally cheap copies of more expensive goods.
 
I'd imagine that if the knife looks like the spitting image of an existing knife from another manufacturer with the minor differences being a lock or something along those lines, not a good idea to post. In other words, if someone (that knows production knives) can mistake it for an existing knife, it's not appropriate.
 
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And just to clarify about ganzo, what if it has the stolen axis lock design which is patented in the US?

Recently there was a thread with a ganzo that the design looked original but had the stolen axis lock. What about this?
 
craytab said:
And just to clarify about ganzo, what if it has the stolen axis lock design which is patented in the US?

Recently there was a thread with a ganzo that the design looked original but had the stolen axis lock. What about this?
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no;
The spirit of the no clones (however you want to term it, counterfeit, clones or homages) comes down to trying duplicate the look and feel of the original knife in as many aspects as possible. A little more in depth, if all the logos, markings were removed, can you tell the difference in pictures between them.

That is my thought- Don't let that stop anyone from interjecting some rational counter thought to this.
 
bhyde said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no;
The spirit of the no clones (however you want to term it, counterfeit, clones or homages) comes down to trying duplicate the look and feel of the original knife in as many aspects as possible. A little more in depth, if all the logos, markings were removed, can you tell the difference in pictures between them.

That is my thought- Don't let that stop anyone from interjecting some rational counter thought to this.
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I get that. It does get more complicated when we are talking about a patent Infringement rather than an out right overall design theft.

That said, for a long time ganzo referred to their axis lock as an axis lock, meaning the customer could think they are getting a legit product (the lock). I believe benchmade pays mchennry and Williams to use their axis lock design exclusively. I wonder how bm feels about knives being sold here, with said lock, made by brands that do not pay to use the design.

Not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to bring up what I believe are relevant points in this larger discussion.

Luckily, most ganzos with the stolen axis lock are also clones of knives from other companies, so the point might be moot.
 
craytab said:
I get that. It does get more complicated when we are talking about a patent Infringement rather than an out right overall design theft.

That said, for a long time ganzo referred to their axis lock as an axis lock, meaning the customer could think they are getting a legit product (the lock). I believe benchmade pays mchennry and Williams to use their axis lock design exclusively. I wonder how bm feels about knives being sold here, with said lock, made by brands that do not pay to use the design.

Not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to bring up what I believe are relevant points in this larger discussion.

Luckily, most ganzos with the stolen axis lock are also clones of knives from other companies, so the point might be moot.
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I am not taking it as argumentative at all. It's a counterpoint that needs to be considered for sure.
For sure, Benchmade doesn't care for patent infringement on any of their designs sold anywhere..but then again, nobody cares for that.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere- Where that is, I can only speculate as the decision is purely up to @Spark.
If it's one feature that defines a clone or the whole package. We have some interpretation of the rules before Spark weighs in on this and will probably enforce according to what those interpretations are.
Personally- I will probably not touch the axis lock only element alone...But that is my interpretation and the other mods may have their own thoughts on the matter.
As an example, if we take infractions for different things, the mods can be as generous or stingy with the chiclets as they want for feel the offense deserves.
There are guidelines in the canned responses, but we are free to modify them.
 
bhyde said:
I am not taking it as argumentative at all. It's a counterpoint that needs to be considered for sure.
For sure, Benchmade doesn't care for patent infringement on any of their designs sold anywhere..but then again, nobody cares for that.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere- Where that is, I can only speculate as the decision is purely up to @Spark.
If it's one feature that defines a clone or the whole package. We have some interpretation of the rules before Spark weighs in on this and will probably enforce according to what those interpretations are.
Personally- I will probably not touch the axis lock only element alone...But that is my interpretation and the other mods may have their own thoughts on the matter.
As an example, if we take infractions for different things, the mods can be as generous or stingy with the chiclets as they want for feel the offense deserves.
There are guidelines in the canned responses, but we are free to modify them.
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Cool. Thanks for your thoughts. I'd love to hear what others think as well. It seems over the last year or so we have been inundated with these grey area clones (although I think patent infringement is not so grey). Even members reviewing said knives and linking to their youtube channels and websites that promote those clones and out right counterfeits. It would be nice to get some further clarification on these things.
 
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