How Sharp Is Sharp Enough ?????

M

marvinstarving

Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
26
All right, I know this is a question that is really up to individual preference. Already read lots about knife sharpening methods, angles, equipment ECT. The more I read and hear the more conflicting some of the information seems to be. :confused: Some people in this form can just touch the tops of the hairs on their arms and off they come. Also there are guys chopping bricks and trees with their expensive knives.
I have read or heard that if you sharpen a butcher knife for meat finer than 320 grit that the meat tends to roll away from the blade. That tomatoes actually cut better with a toothy edge.
Let me introduce you to our knives and how we use them. We have a lot of vintage kitchen knives. Mine a mainly carbon steal. My wife’s are mainly stainless steal. They include many chefs’ knives, paring, boning and slicing. Most are European. Did I mention we are addicts[?:) These knives are used on meat, fish, poultry, and vegetables. Some on a daily bases.
My other knives are hunting knives. They are used mainly for skinning deer, wild pigs, and bear. They include a vintage Buck, Schrader sharp finger carbon steel, and a stainless Case. Three new Knives of Alaska. So far unused.:(
What I am looking for is realistic angles for the different types of knives and their uses. What is the best grits for sharpening? How sharp should they really be to perform at their peak?
Thanks for any help.
Hope you guys all have a great day,
Marvin.
 
Well I can't say I use my knives on a lot of meat, although I've found with my Ka-bar, which served as a kitchen knife for a year or two, just getting a good clean edge at any decent angle and finishing up with the fine (i use that term loosely!) side of my carborundum stone was just about perfect for slicing anything. Some knives I polish up more, but most of the time I finish up my fine DMT stone, with maybe a few strokes on the extra-fine for good measure and to help remove any burr.

That said, I've been stropping my becker daily on some leather/mothers metal polish and that edge is so polished now that its not too useful for most tasks... But I figure once it starts seeing normal useage it'll dull and I'll sharpen it back to a toothier edge (maybe finish on the xf dmt which is 1200 grit, but leaves a toothy while very crisp edge).

I've usually happy when I can easily slice off corners of paper and can pushcut decently throughout the length of the blade...
 
I bought my mom a spyderco yin kitchen knife and I've been maintaining it for her. After the factory edge wore out I set a higher angle, probably about 10 degrees on a DMT D8XX which is 120 grit. I move to a 320 coarse DMT on the main bevel then increase the angle to somewhere between 15-18 per side for a microbevel. After that I switch to a spyderco medium ceramic which is about 800 grit, then finish with a fine ceramic (about 1200 grit). Going from a very low grit to much higher grits without steady progession will leave a nice polished toothy edge that is very sharp, and will pushcut well but slice even better. The other nice thing about sharpening with a microbevel is that when you need to touch the edge up, you just hit the edge at the saem angle on the spydeco medium and fine stones and the edge will be just as sharp as when you initally sharpened it.
 
The more that you cut using a crosswise slicing motion the more benefit you see from leaving some coarseness to your final honing finish. You will also notice a great benefit to edge coarseness if your blade is thick or honed at an obtuse angle. For example you can really slice meat with a bayonet that has been well sharpened with a file.

I generally hone my kitchen knives to acute angles (around 10 degrees per side) and so a smooth finish works well on meat with almost any finish. Wide chefs knives and santokus I usually leave with a smooth edge finish since I use them mostly for push cutting on a cutting board (minimal slicing action). For a practical finish on these I usually use a fine white ceramic rod. For thinner bladed knives that I use more like boning knives I like the finish I get from medium ceramic rods. That finish slices a bit more aggressively. The rules aren't that rigid, but that's sort of the direction that I take.
 
Diamond stones (at least DMT's) are a little interesting as the higher grits don't really polish (at least I wouldnt call it polishing). Yeah, they will produce a finer edge, but in my slight bit of experience, even the XF stones (1200 grit, 9 micro) will provide for a nice slicing edge, with finer push cutting ability than the fine (25 mico, 600 grit?) provides for.
 
Thanks guys for all the help. I just got several new to me knives to experiment on. One is a carbon steel chef’s knife, no name. I have been using a Lansky sharpening system with oil stones. I bought it before finding this forum. The coarse stone is taking FOREVER:grumpy: to get a burr. The blade has been ground almost completely to the opposite side of the knife. Am I doing something wrong? Or do I just need to keep going?:confused:
On the other hand I free handed a Lamson master carver carbon steel. Just used some old oil stones that have been around for years. Then used 400 grit wet and dry sand paper. It shaves hair of my arm.:cool: Still have 4 more carbon steel knives to practice on. Plan on getting an Edge Pro when I go back to work.:) Until them have to use what I have
 
A knife has to be sharp enough to cut the things it was made to cut...

When I sell a knife to a co-worker of mine, I always sharpen it enough to shave the air off my left arm.
That is the way the person getting the knife will test it's edge anyway, so thats the mark I have to reach.
 
Oh, by the way ...
i have been reading how some experts believe that we should not use any oil with our stones.

Tonight I tried to sharpen my new knife dry.
The knife was new just made today and had a very blunt edge.
I worked one side of the blade on my stone until I got a burr, then flipped.
I found this dry system a lot more fun as it kept my hands and knife handle clean.
 
marvinstarving said:
Hey guys,
I am fairly new. What are 600 DMT, and CPM154 kitchen knives?
Click to expand...

600 DMT refers to the 600 grit Diamond Machining Technologies (DMT) "fine" stone. CPM 154 is Crucible Metals powder metallurgy version of 154 CM, a common stainless for blades used Benchmade and a few others. The CPM 154 is supposed to give more uniformity in the steel, have finer grain size, and be easier to heat treat consistently.
 
marvinstarving said:
All right, I know this is a question that is really up to individual preference. Already read lots about knife sharpening methods, angles, equipment ECT. The more I read and hear the more conflicting some of the information seems to be. :confused: Some people in this form can just touch the tops of the hairs on their arms and off they come. Also there are guys chopping bricks and trees with their expensive knives.
I have read or heard that if you sharpen a butcher knife for meat finer than 320 grit that the meat tends to roll away from the blade. That tomatoes actually cut better with a toothy edge.
Let me introduce you to our knives and how we use them. We have a lot of vintage kitchen knives. Mine a mainly carbon steal. My wife’s are mainly stainless steal. They include many chefs’ knives, paring, boning and slicing. Most are European. Did I mention we are addicts[?:) These knives are used on meat, fish, poultry, and vegetables. Some on a daily bases.
My other knives are hunting knives. They are used mainly for skinning deer, wild pigs, and bear. They include a vintage Buck, Schrader sharp finger carbon steel, and a stainless Case. Three new Knives of Alaska. So far unused.:(
What I am looking for is realistic angles for the different types of knives and their uses. What is the best grits for sharpening? How sharp should they really be to perform at their peak?
Thanks for any help.
Hope you guys all have a great day,
Marvin.
Click to expand...
Sharp enough that you are happy with it Mate.
The angle you sharpen at would depend on what you use it for.
I have in fact several knives that go blunt sitting in their sheaths in the draw.
I take them out and curse them and touch them up on 1800 W&D paper
 
I just go for a useful edge. I used to strop so it could shave like a razor, but anymore it's just not worth it. I make sure all my knives are sharp but not....

scarysharpA.jpg
 
Hey, Just did my first stropping. Just got 2 vintage carbon steel German made slicing knives. One of the other guys gave me detailed directions on another post, thread, or what ever they are called. Did the first knife in about 10 minutes. It shaved pretty well. When it came time to do the second knife I could not see well enough to figure out the different grits until the 1500. That one was easy to tell, it was the one with the blood from checking for the burr. I guess it was a lot sharper at that time than I thought.:D Can’t believe how well stropping works.
Found the DMT. Will have to wait until work picks back up to get one.
This is getting to be to FUN!!!!!!:) :) :)
 
do NOT.. repeat, do NOT .. start buying fancy whetstones. you will lose interest in knives, other than as raw material for your lust..

you will seek scottish, chinese, and finnish, to fit among the japanese, arkansas, and belgian..

you will dream of the elusive thuringer, the rostoff, the mythical turkish ..

you will own shaptons and sneer at them, know the guy who has the REAL stones that you can't even afford to drool on, think of DMT hones as 'rough work' preliminary warmups..

if you don't YET own a loupe, stop. Get help now, call your sponsor and let him talk you through the craving..

one day at a time.. ;)
 
How sharp is sharp enough???

Well when you lightly wave it through the air, and the edge splits the atoms, starting a chain reaction that ends life on earth as we know it.....

Safe to say that's probably getting close to sharp enough.
 
mitchshrader said:
do NOT.. repeat, do NOT .. start buying fancy whetstones. you will lose interest in knives, other than as raw material for your lust..

you will seek scottish, chinese, and finnish, to fit among the japanese, arkansas, and belgian..

you will dream of the elusive thuringer, the rostoff, the mythical turkish ..

you will own shaptons and sneer at them, know the guy who has the REAL stones that you can't even afford to drool on, think of DMT hones as 'rough work' preliminary warmups..

if you don't YET own a loupe, stop. Get help now, call your sponsor and let him talk you through the craving..

one day at a time.. ;)
Click to expand...

Oh man, thanks I need a reality check.:eek: Wow what was I thinking? :eek: Almost had to do another fourth step.:o No sponsors raised their hand last time. Are you available to sponsor? I promise not to USE any electric knife sharpener except in an emergency. I will sell the Lansky and 4 of the 5 electric sharpeners. I might keep the Warthog for my wife to use while I am in lock down. :rolleyes: If you are willing to be my sponsor, I will not buy any more sharpeners or stones without your permission. My wife and I agreed to sell several of the knives we are not using. Well my knives any way.
OK, stropping really works on our kitchen knives. However, what about my hunting knives. If I have to put an edge back on them in the Alaskan bush, what do I do? Will the stropped edge hold up for skinning and boning? Man do I ever need a sponsor.
Oh by the way where do you get the loupe strop from?:D
 
Personally, I like a high grit finish for a push cutter, while slicers do better with a coars finish.

Cutting meat, I like using D2 with a rough finish.
 
for me it all depends on the knife. for the knives I carry and use every day, I just get really sharp--totally useful, but not scary sharp. My other knives, I like to get as sharp as I possibly can. Just cause I can. :)
 
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