How sharp

bt93

bt93

Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
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So I got a Trestle Pines Grand Fortage. I've had trouble getting it sharp after being wowed by how long it holds it's edge. I've been using my Vic Explorer to experiment different sharpening techniques.
Anyway, I got a Smith's guided sharpening system from the big box store. I got my Vic Explorer scary sharp. I mean I use it at work to cut plastic wrap and I swear the plastic parts before the edge gets to it. Then suddenly, it's tearing. The edge folded. I love Vics and it's amazing how sharp I can get mine, but to go from parting plastic wrap to well ripping it suddenly was disconcerting.
I have the Grand Portage which I can get to paper cutting sharp but not razor sharp. I'm going to start using it at work.
The GP does cut the plastic wrap well, just not as good as the Vic at it's best. However, the Vic's edge will suddenly go dull with the edge folding thing, so now I might be more forgiving of the CPM 154.
I guess I'm bothered by the fact that I paid $120 for a premium steel blade that I can't get as sharp as my Vic Explorer. Face it, I can spend a measley $15 for a Vic Cadet for the same sharpness.
I like the Trestle Pines Grand Portage as it's a Barlow with a Screwdriver. When I was younger, I ruined more than a few Barlows trying to use the blades for a screwdriver. I might've killed to get a knife like the Grand Portage.
So now I have my dream knife with less ability than my Vic Explorer +. I can't get it as sharp as I can get the Vic but the edge won't fold.
Am I being materialistic or is it OK to choose a knife with better edge holding than utility.
Really confused on that. The Trestle Pines Grand Fortage with it's wooden handle and brass bolster just seems to have more soul than the Vic. Yet the Vic makes more sense. I just don't know.
I'm going to take the Grand Portage to work tomorrow. The edge won't cut as smooth as the Vic at it's best, but it won't suddenly fold on me either. Yet I'll be wondering,"What if I need that Phillips?" or if I forget my prescription safety glasses and have to use the companies safety glasses I might need that magnifying glass.
A knife is a tool, and nothing exemplifies that like Victorinox. Yet there is soul in wood and brass which makes me 'want' to favor the Grand Portage. Time will tell.
I'm curious of other's opinions.
 
Well, I also have a hair whittling edge on my Explorer (smaller blade especially) for very delicate tasks, but one of the reasons I compliment it with a large folder is its inability to stand up to certain types of abuse, danger when stabbing on occasion and doing some prying.

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Those are the brutes' tasks, the shiny polished explorer is the delicate folk
 
I have a Vic Explorer and love it...for everything EXCEPT the knife blades. Victorinox run their knives very soft - I think around 54HRC - and combined with the lack of carbides this means they're easy to sharpen to a stupidly sharp edge. Unfortunately they also roll and wear down fairly quickly.

CPM154 will certainly be more difficult to sharpen than Victorinox's steel but it shouldn't be too bad. This makes me think your technique may be off. If the knife came dull you may not be spending enough time on the coarser stones before moving to the fine. Also if you haven't done it already, I strongly recommend the sharpie trick. It may also pay to check out the Maintenance subforum.

Finally, have you considered picking up a "middle ground" knife to practice on? An Opinel Inox (12C27) will have a harder blade (58HRC vs Victorinox's 54ish) but 12C27 is otherwise extremely easy to sharpen.

Also, I understand your point about "soul". It's worth persevering.
 
A fixed wouldn't work for me at work, they have a 3" blade limit. Besides you just backed my assertion that the Vics edge is delicate when the edge is that sharp. I've generally had the Vics edge short of razor edge, more like paper cutting sharp. At that the edge holds pretty good but not nearly as long a CPM 154, but well enough for a pocket knife used once or twice a day. The Trestle Pines Grand Portage can get a nice paper cutting edge that lasts for multiple weeks, but I struggle getting it razor sharp.
 
I'm no expert, so I'll sound off.
The TP will always be thicker than the Vic (I assume) and will slice less well even at the same sharpness.
Would the Vic roll-over be retarded if it were sharpened to a greater included angle?

Also, why not carry both?
 
If not mistaken you have a med course diamond and a fine ceramic stone with the guide capable of achieving a 20 degree angle in your Smith kit. The CPM-154 will definitely be a bit harder to sharpen but you should be able to get a very sharp edge on it. However it's going to take a lot more passes over your stones than your ViC. Also decrease the strokes in increments example 50, 25, 10 ,5 on each side with both stones maintaining the same pressure and repeat until you get the edge you want. After this initial sharpening just touch up as needed.
 
I will add too that Victorinox blades are crazy easy to get crazy sharp.
With a Vic, you have to pass it over the stones at the correct angle (hitting the final edge) say 10 times per side on a white ceramic stone to bring the edge back to razor sharp after a decent amount of use.
With one of my 154CM knives if is dulled equally to the Vic I would have to first run it over a medium stone to actually remove material and reset the edge then run it over the fine stone 20-30 times per side. There is no comparison between the two steels for SHARPENABILITY.

For potential sharpness, 154CM is on par with my Vic knives. When I compare VG10 and 154CM to higher end steels like S30V and M390 I think of the razor sharp blades I have in VG10 and 154CM and the knives I don't want to use in higher carbide steels due to the effort it takes to sharpen them. 154CM is the sweet-spot IMO on being able to get a knife sharp and keep its edge.

You absolutely have to get the bevels on your knife to meet with your coarsest stone set before moving onto the next finer set of stones. It took me years to really appreciate this rule, but once I did I was never frustrated by sharpening again. I like to both use the Sharpie trick and sharpen in a well lit room (especially while reprofiling) because you can easily see the tiny bits of the polished factory edge that remain while you sharpen it away with a diamond stone. Good luck!
 
Vic's don't suddenly go dull. Especially on plastic wrap.

What it sounds likes you are getting a wire edge and it's folding over. Somewhere in your finishing steps, you're either not stropping it off, or not getting it off with the last step. The Vic steel is a little softer and will develop a wire edge easier than a knife with a higher RC hardness.

Also, the Vic steel works better longer with a slightly courser toothier edge. My SAK's get sharpened on the bottom of a coffee mug. Works great. Strop on the back of an old belt.
 
I'll agree with Carl^ above.

There's likely a wire edge or burr folding on the Vic, if it's dulling on plastic wrap; that shouldn't happen on a cleanly sharpened edge. Victorinox's blades are a bit softer (RC 55-56), which means a little more attention needs to be paid to cleaning up burrs/wires completely, and a very light touch for sharpening also makes a difference. If sharpened on ceramics in particular, those are prone to easily burring such steels.

I'd bet most of the issue with the CPM-154 blade is a thick(ish) factory grind behind the apex. Seems like so many 'super steel' blades from the factory have that issue anyway; Queen's D2 blades come to mind. Victorinox usually does a great job with thin grinds from the factory, which is a big part of why they're so easy to sharpen up and maintain sharp.

If the CPM-154 blade is a bit thick behind the edge, it'll obviously take some time to thin it down to similar slicing performance as compared to the Victorinox. This is the 'fix' for likely 99% of factory blades that present this way (difficulty in restoring factory sharpness). But I'd bet the end result would be worth the time spent to get it done. Wouldn't have to be done all at once; just take a little more off the 'shoulders' of the bevels each time you sharpen it. Done as such, it'll get gradually thinned down over time, and slicing performance will improve accordingly, and it'll also become much easier to restore and maintain sharpness, like the Vic.


David
 
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I have few victorinox knives and they do not go dull after cutting plastic wrap.They will easily get scary sharp and they keel cutting for some time.It is easy to touch it up on any ceramics or bottom of mug,I get them shaving sharp again in just few strokes on each side on bottom of plate or brown ceramics on my sharpmaker.I use sharpening steel on them too,but you can use just ceramics with no problem.
 
PS.Most factory knives are too thick behind the edge,I thin out all my knives first,then start sharpening them.This includes some of my Victorinox folders.
 
Thanks for all the replies, sorry I'm slow getting back, having some odd wifi problems. Anyway I'll try to form the edge on the Grand Portage at 20 degrees and on the Vic I'll check out that wire edge thing and see about stropping it on denim as presently don't have a proper strop.
 
Macchina said:
You absolutely have to get the bevels on your knife to meet with your coarsest stone set before moving onto the next finer set of stones.
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth. If the knife won't slice newsprint cleanly off the coarse stone, you aren't finished with it yet. Sharpness happens on the coarse stone, period.


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