How to clean this 165 Old Timer

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butcher321

Joined
Sep 15, 2016
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New to forum. Never know there was so much to know about knives! This knife was given to me at a going away party when I moved from FL back to Pa in 1984. Intent was to use it while hunting. Took it out hunting first year and did not get anything so did not use the knife. Following summer my wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away shortly after that. Remarried and second wife was not a hunter and due to other circumstances never hunted again. Knife has been stored in a box in the sheath with only looking at it a couple time over all these years. Got it out the other day and googled it and found this forum. Looking to find out what would be the best way to clean it up and hopefully restore it to looking good. Wish I would have been smart enough to keep the box and papers! Here are some pics:

3 by Butch Hinton, on Flickr

2 by Butch Hinton, on Flickr

1 by Butch Hinton, on Flickr
 
Welcome, butcher321. I would probably soak that knife in something like mineral oil (you can buy it for treating wooden bowls or butcher blocks) for a couple days to stop the active/red rust. Then I would probably scrub it gently with a medium-coarse steel wool and the mineral oil. It's definitely a user at this point but it looks to be in pretty good condition still. Just a little rusty from being stored in the sheath.

Collector's value is gone, but it's a solid knife for camp or on the trail. It's one of my favorite Schrade patterns, that I still don't own an example of yet...
 
Motey, Thanks. The knife is actually in new condition except for the rust and whatever else is on the blade. Quick question, would I soak the whole knife in the mineral oil or just the blade?
 
There may be rust under the scales. It looks like it spent some time wet. I'd soak just the blade first. Like stand it in a jar or just paint the mineral oil on. Then wipe it occasionally over a few days time as the rust scale loosens. Without going to a lot of trouble, you won't restore the knife to new condition. I think a cutler might. There will be some pitting of the original surface and you won't remove that without aggressive sanding. Still, it shows promise of being an excellent user. The sheath obviously was either stored separately or acquired as a replacement. The blade does look like it had been stored wet in a sheath. And not that one.
 
Codger, I can guarantee that is the original sheath only because I am the original owner of this knife. Received it new in 1984 and know it has spent 99% of the time in its original sheath in a box in the basement (not the box the knife came in, just in a box with other stuff in storage. It was in a damp basement for approx 7 years in the 90's. My intent is just to clean it up the best I can and then keep it. What would be the proper way to store the knife and also store the sheath. After I get it cleaned up, what would be best to put on the blade so it does not rust anymore? Also I am new to the world of knives, how do you clean the rust under the scales or should I worry about it.
 
butcher321 said:
Codger, I can guarantee that is the original sheath only because I am the original owner of this knife. Received it new in 1984 and know it has spent 99% of the time in its original sheath in a box in the basement (not the box the knife came in, just in a box with other stuff in storage. It was in a damp basement for approx 7 years in the 90's. My intent is just to clean it up the best I can and then keep it. What would be the proper way to store the knife and also store the sheath. After I get it cleaned up, what would be best to put on the blade so it does not rust anymore? Also I am new to the world of knives, how do you clean the rust under the scales or should I worry about it.
Click to expand...
The sheaths were made from acid tanned leather and it is not a good idea to store the knives in the sheaths as it does allow corrosion over time. Schrade often shipped these and other sheath knives with the sheath in a polybag and the knife with a thin cardboard blade sleeve or a vinyl blade sleeve. The blade steel was further protected from moisture corrosion by a thin layer of factory applied oil. I don't know the factory oil formula, but most of us collectors use food grade mineral oil that you can get at pharmacies ( marked "U.S.P."). You don't clean rust from under the scales without removing them. And that is not easy to do without ruining the Delrin covers and nickel silver compression rivets. I wouldn't worry too much about that. Soaking the handle at least along the exposed tang in oil will wick some in there and likely stop any hidden active rusting.

This knife was many years old when this picture was taken and it was still in excellent condition after much use afield and storage. Over 30 years in fact. Simply keeping it clean and oiled between uses will make it last a lifetime of normal use.

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Got to pick up some mineral oil and get it soaking. Then I will clean it best I can and store it out of sheath unless I would be wearing it for any reason. When I get done I will post pics again. Thanks for all the info.
 
You're welcome. Easy does it on the cleaning. Blade surface metal removed in the process will never be there again. Some discoloring and patina is not unusual as you can see by my example above. If the soak and wipe doesn't do it for you, get a little more aggressive with fine steel wool. If that doesn't get it like you want it, use a really fine sandpaper with backing. A cutler might use a belt with rouge I think. Still better to remove too little metal than too much.
 
I would soak the blade in oil by wrapping an oily paper towel around it. After a few days wipe it off and repeat. I would not rub it with anything abrasive.
In the end it'll look used but authentic and original.

Long term, I would wipe a little mineral oil on the blade and store it out of it's sheath.
 
Probably sounds nuts but I use a tall glass, place the knife blade tip down and then fill it with fresh Diet Coke up to the guard. Nearly all the rust is gone by morning. In its place will be a dark patina that easily polishes off with Flitz metal polish. I've done this several times with old carbon steel Moras and other hunting knives....including a vintage Boker made in the old Schrade plant.....works like magic. You will have some pitting on deeply rusted areas. The big plastic glass used for this is never used for drinking....only removing rust on blades. The porous quality of the plastic will never be completely safe to drink out of after this, IMO.

I wouldn't let the coke touch the brass guard or handle if it were me. You may have to spot treat the hilt up by the guard to keep it off the brass and handle...I quit drinking sodas after seeing how the Coke's phosphoric acid works on steel. :eek: On a science site, I read that it will dissolve an iron nail in 4 days!

Google "Coca Cola removes rust" and see the results. I use diet Coke because it is less sticky than regular Coke. Be sure to google it first and make up your own mind.

Here is a knife I de-rusted with diet coke.

Before, had red surface rust and dark areas of stains/rust
Sellers%20pic_zps9dchy7fb.jpg


After
after_zpswdkmprk7.jpg


Pits are there but it's much improved rust wise. This is after polishing with Flitz to remove the dark patina from the Diet Coke. Make sure the blade is clean of all traces of oil before you start.
 
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OK, here is the finished product. Soaked for couple days to remove rust and then polishing wheel on Dremel with metal polish. Is there anything I can do to get rid of more of the dark areas? The blade has the original edge and is still pretty darn sharp.
Another question, can I do anything to the sheath without taking it apart?
Here are pics:

IMG_0289 by Butch Hinton, on Flickr

IMG_0288 by Butch Hinton, on Flickr
 
Looks good to me Butch. That's there whatchu call a patina. You'd just be taking off more metal to get rid of the darker areas which is actual a protective black rust. I'd be proud to have that grey lady in my stable come this November when go
Elk hunting. I don't own a 165 yet. User or collector.

Codger always make me jealous when he posts thos sharp finger/165 action pics as I actual don't have a sharp finger either to use.:cool:

Id just hot water rinse the sheath and stiff tooth brush out as much gunk as I could let it dry naturally for quite awhile an then use a protectant like mink oil or Obenaufs. Do a real good job at cleaning and drying first.

Some adventurous types will actually take the stitching apart clean, oil and restitch. :eek::eek: I'd just buy a new sheath if it was that bad.

Now sharpen that girl up and get to cutting on something.
 
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Patina, yes. And yes, to remove it you will have to remove surface metal. Regardless, the knife will never be factory fresh new again. If that it what you seek, buy a preserved specimen with no patina. And keep it new in the box with a light coat of oil and a desiccant pack from an electronics box or those made for firearm storage. That aside, use the knife as it was intended. A patina helps preserve the carbon steel blade like blueing on a gun. Which is just a surface oxidation.

If one takes the original MSRP from the earlier days and plug it into an inflation calculator, a new in the box example can be bought today for the same dollar value as then. This applies to both the Sharpfinger and the Woodsman as well as many other patterns. Now compare the current prices of these as-new old knives to current production knives of the same quality and you will see that they are really sleeper bargains.

As to the sheaths, we have a sheathmaker's specific forum here. Those guys know leather and can answer your questions on cleaning and preservation better than I.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. Do not want to remove metal so will keep knife as it is. Will check with sheathmaker's forum to see what I can do with the sheath. As this stage do not know if I am going to keep it or sell it. I no longer hunt so doubt I will use the knife.
 
Get a good leather cleaner like saddle soap then treat it with a good leather dressing and your sheath will be fine.
 
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