How to convince someone that slipjoints are safe?

kamagong

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I've given my sister a few knives over the years. Usually I see a knife that I think she'd like, then I buy it and make a gift of it to her. I've never given her a slipjoint however. Yesterday, while waiting in the car for my wife, my sister noticed the Moore Maker sodbuster that I keep in the glove compartment. She was instantly attracted to the yellow bone handles and dark carbon blade. I handed it over and told her it was hers. She eagerly took it, but then handed it back after a couple of minutes. It seems that the lack of a lock, combined with the strong spring, scares her. She thinks that it's dangerous and that she is afraid she will cut herself. I told her that a slipjoint is no more dangerous than the Buck framelock that I gave her. She still doesn't believe me though. What can I say to convince her that slipjoints are perfectly safe?
 
Some folks never seem to get over a fear of slipjoints, especially if they've ever had an accident with one.

My sister never felt comfortable with the ones I gave to my nephew and it's not worth fighting over.

Perhaps patience and demonstrating their safe employment may win out in the end.
 
That may be it. The strange thing is that I am almost 100% certain that she has never cut herself with a slippy as she has never owned one apart from a SAK that I gave her. I don't think she has any rational basis to be afraid of slipjoints. My 4-year-old nephew on the other hand isn't afraid at all of slipjoints, and can't wait for the day he gets his first knife.
 
Maybe it would be easier to convince her with a cam end tang pattern instead of a square end tang pattern -- the snap from half stop to closed can be a bit overdone in many square tang slipjoints - and is in fact where I've gotten nipped most of the times a slipjoint has got me, just by being stupid and having a bit of finger or hand in the way (a very strong spring makes this even more likely since you have to hold the handle more strongly and fully -- one reason I'm not too fond of really strong springs). I've only had a slipjoint close up in use once - when I was a little kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old - it was what they call a learning experience. :p But getting back to the cam end tangs -- a properly done pattern will do its final snap closed much closer to the handle - usually close enough that you have naturally moved everything attached to you out of the way by then - and the *snap* is normally not nearly so "impressive".

-- Dwight
 
That may be it. The strange thing is that I am almost 100% certain that she has never cut herself with a slippy as she has never owned one apart from a SAK that I gave her. I don't think she has any rational basis to be afraid of slipjoints. My 4-year-old nephew on the other hand isn't afraid at all of slipjoints, and can't wait for the day he gets his first knife.



Little kids are smarter than most of us adults. :D
 
I think it also has to do with finger strength, to someone that is not as strong may not feel they have control of opening a blade with a strong back spring. At least that is what I have seen.
 
I will voice a different opinon and say that I don't think Slipjoints are for everyone, and that might include someone who is too wary of them or someone who has little experience with knives in general.

A knowledgable Slipjoint owner is one who understands the limitations of a folding knife and is willing to use it wisely. Is this person willing to work through their initial fear and use a slipjoint correctly or (like Blues stated) are you simply trying too hard to put a square peg in a round hole, that is something you will have to decide as you are speaking to them.

Gentle pursuasion, frequent sharing of your own pocketknife, reminders of proper use, etc. would be my approach. But you must be prepared and aware that it might not work out.
 
show her its safe by using the knife yourself. i think seeing it used for herself would best ease her fears than any words.
 
Slip joints are not a safe knife, thats why it's so important to learn proper knife handling when young. A slip joint is most unforgiving of dumb behavior, and we all learned that the hard way when we were kids. There's probably not too many here that at one time when our age was still a single digit, that did not cut ourselves by doing just what dad or Uncle Joe, or grandad told us not to. But we learned by that little bloodletting and we never did "that" again.

Today we have a whole genration that has grown up using locking blade knives, and since they never had to deal with a slip joint, they have some very, VERY, sloppy knife habits. Habits that are going to bit them in the butt one day when a bit of lint, or dirt, or just plain wear and abuse, makes that lock fail and they will be sitting in the waiting room of a hand clinic, waiting for the local surgery to reconect some tendons or ligiments so they won't be crippled for life.

Kamagong, I wish I could have had your sister with me last winter when I went to get my hand operated on for a case of trigger finger, and let her hear first hand from the young man and his mother how his high tech tactical folder folded up on him and did some very severe damage to his right fingers. Or I wish she'd have been in the machine shop when a young guy that was very faithful in his Buck 110 as he was abusing it. He laughed off the warnings from us "Old dudes" about trusting the lock that much. Just after lunch he amputated his right index finger at the first joint, and almost took off his middle finger.

Have your sister just use the sodbuster on a cutting board to slice up some veggies for a salid, or some other easy job. Let her see that using the knife as it was intended will not cause the blade to close up on her. That only a direct force on the back of the blade will close it. Let her see how if it's used, there is no way it can be dangerous.

I've long felt that blade locks of any type are a fake crutch, a back door to bad knife handling practice. For 2 thousand years, simple friction folders have been dated back to the Romans, and even to modern times, Basque heardsmen, and laborers across Europe have used them. The sodbuster design goes back hundreds of years to eastern Europe and peasant class working people.

Bring her along slowly, she just doesn't know.
 
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Today we have a whole genration that has grown up using locking blade knives, and since they never had to deal with a slip joint, they have some very, VERY, sloppy knife habits. Habits that are going to bit them in the butt one day when a bit of lint, or dirt, or just plain wear and abuse, makes that lock fail and they will be sitting in the waiting room of a hand clinic, waiting for the local surgery to reconect some tendons or ligiments so they won't be crippled for life.

Amen.

After a few accidents involving SAKs as a kid, I switched to locking folders and have been carrying them for 20+ years. Recently I bought a (non-traditional) Spyderco byrd Wings Slipit slipjoint and also started carrying a SAK again. Haven't been bitten yet, but I have to keep remding myself to take my thumb off the back of the blades on the byrd when I'm cutting something.

Now I keep finding myself drooling over various online store's catalogs of slipjoints, lusting after various handle materials and blade arrangements...

I'm only partially giving in (So far...), though. Next knife purchase will be a Queen drop-point hunter fixed blade with a gorgeous fossilized maple handle.
 
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There is some great wisdom here in those last posts. I was bit pretty good as a kid with a slipjoint and have avoided them like the plague, until I realized that I had a lot to do with the cut I received. Right tool for the job. I still prefer a locking knife for hard use, but for everyday stuff, I no longer refuse a slipjoint. Plus, there are more legal length slippies that are good looking than there are locking knives...at least that's my take on it.
 
Thanks for the input all.

A knowledgable Slipjoint owner is one who understands the limitations of a folding knife and is willing to use it wisely....Gentle pursuasion, frequent sharing of your own pocketknife, reminders of proper use, etc. would be my approach. But you must be prepared and aware that it might not work out.
That's the thing that gets me. She watched me use a slipjoint for two hours yesterday opening wedding presents. Not once did I come close to losing a finger, and yet she still thinks slippies are dangerous.

Slip joints are not a safe knife, thats why it's so important to learn proper knife handling when young. A slip joint is most unforgiving of dumb behavior, and we all learned that the hard way when we were kids. There's probably not too many here that at one time when our age was still a single digit, that did not cut ourselves by doing just what dad or Uncle Joe, or grandad told us not to. But we learned by that little bloodletting and we never did "that" again.
I don’t know if I agree with that. All folding knives are designed to fold, so I don’t think that a slipjoint is any less safe than a lockback or framelock. One can argue that slipjoints are safer than other pocketknife designs due to the fact that they force the user to use proper cutting technique and not develop bad habits. I understand not wanting to be cut, but with a little care you can keep the cuts to a minimum. Despite using knives every day, I hardly ever cut myself with them. On the other hand, I always seem to be the unlucky recipient of paper and cardboard cuts.
 
i wonder if people who are afraid of slipjoints are really afraid of tools in general ? a screwdriver can seriously jab your hand. you can hit your thumb with a hammer. a circular saw??? hand held side grinder?? some people should 'nt / cant use tools.
 
All folding knives are designed to fold, so I don’t think that a slipjoint is any less safe than a lockback or framelock. One can argue that slipjoints are safer than other pocketknife designs due to the fact that they force the user to use proper cutting technique and not develop bad habits.

This is a bit like saying that a tricycle is more dangerous than a racing motorcycle because the motorcycle forces you to be able to ride the bike.

Fact... A lock back knife is less likely to fold up on a user than a slip joint.

Imagine... you're cutting through some stiff cardboard, the knife binds, it won't continue the cut, it won't come out perpendicular to the cut, you move the knife away from the cut (into the natural closing action of the knife) to free the knife. Given the choice between a slip joint and a lock back, which knife is more likely to fold?

A slip joint knife is more dangerous because you have to know HOW to use it safely in order TO use it safely. Conversely, a lock back tends to teach poor knife habits BECAUSE it is more forgiving of safety lapses than a slip joint.

I still have the scar from the one and only time that a slip joint folded on me (20 years ago). I was doing something stupid, and in hindsight the cut was as much karma as anything. I didn't swear off of slipjoints (I didn't even know the term) but I remeber with crystal clarity the hour before and after the event.

Non-locking pocket knives are not for everyone, and neither are tactical folders or lockbacks.

In my search for a new slip joint (northfield scout) I noticed that great eastern cutlery has a fairly wide selection of traditionally styled pocket knives with liner locks. Maybe one of these would be in order. They even have patterns locking master blade and a non-locking pen blade.
 
It's an interesting dilemma. I don't trust ANY folder, lock or not. I treat every knife as if it wants to bite me - most of them do! They must be talking to the mosquitos - my blood tastes good! :D
 
I've been cut a fair amount of times when doing something I shouldn't have
been but not just with slipjoints. How can anyone blame a knife for cutting themselves?
locking folders don't allow you to do stupid things and not get cut. Is this a "how much can we get away with" deal while using knives? I think "Larry the cable guy" puts it
well about guns "I was cleanin the thing and it went off"..
Ken
 
I believe that slipjoints are just one of those things that require patience and a bit of firsthand experience in order to fully understand that locks aren't as necessary as some people think them to be. It is through those little mistakes and cuts that we all learn how to properly use a knife. While our fathers and grandfathers may have warned us of the impending results if we mistreat our knives, it is through regular use that we discover the beauty and simplicity of a good, solid slipjoint pocket knife.
 
The problem as I see it today, is simple. Folks are growing up, and not learning the correct basic fundamentals of anything, and have been brainwashed into thinking/feeling "safety" is dependent on some kind of physical something.

Parents are not parenting, and mentors are not mentoring.

Maybe the gov't has brainwashed folks to the point "the gov't is gonna take care of you".
We certainly hear a lot of society whining out "somebody gotta do something!" and gov't passes some stupid band-aid fix of a law, to get votes and give society the warm-n-fuzzies.


Never learn on a crutch, for if you lose that crutch, you will fall down.

Scissors, for example. Kids do not have the motor skills developed yet, nor the attention span.
So "safety scissors" ( rounded ends) are what kids learn "scissor safety and use".

Victorinox, does a "My first knife" which is kid friendly as is a great teaching tool.

Kids are parented, mentored, in correct basic fundamentals. They Earn responsibility, with scissors, knives, guns, and anything else.

"Don't run with scissors".
"Fingers and body parts stay away from points and sharp edges".
"Four Rules of Gun Safety apply even to this BB Gun"

etc.

My position on all this stems from the fact I was born in the last great decade, and how I was raised.

You learn on a slip joint /pocket knife ( that is what we had, or fixed). The Safety is b/t the ears, and if one learns and uses these correct basic fundamentals, then locking knives will not bite them. Err I should say less apt to...it depends on whether you have a stupid knife design. *snark*

Dead Serious.
The last time I got cut with a knife, was with a locking knife.

Why? Because you have to put fingers in front /near the edge, to release the liner lock.

This goes totally against how I was raised. There is no other way to release the dad-blasted thing, other than have a finger near that edge.

Slip joint is safer than this known, popular, liner lock knife. Not only in how you close it, also in use.
That stupid lock, does not always lock.
This is where having been raised on slip joints, and correct basic fundamentals, kept another person from being cut, while using it.
Stupid me, gets cut in closing this thing.
I was asked to test and evaluate some knives and I wanted input from others.
A lady friend said "you close this stupid thing, it ain't made for us that were raised right".

The slip joint, has backspring tension.

What do most locking knives have for "tension" between closed, and locked?

I also grew up with fixed blades, and these had points rounded and edges dulled.
I am a wittle kid, and that knife was "mine" to learn with. How to do everything with one, from handling it, to handing it to someone else, how to hold it, use it, clean it, dry it off, put in its spot....etc.

I earned being responsible enough to have a fixed knife "my size" with a point, and sharpened.

A fixed is safer than a locking knife. Just the same, you get fingers in front of that edge, and it will cut you as well.

Safety is between the ears.
 
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How to convince someone that slipjoints are safe; a tutorial.

Step 1.
Go back in time, and search for the Breaking Point. This will be readily identifiable, and it will consist of the first generation where a father did NOT give his son a pocket knife.

Step 2a.
Find out why the father in question did not give his son a pocket knife. Perhaps it was merely a question of economics, in which case you could help him out pretty easily. If the issue runs deeper, see Step 2b.

Step 2b.
Tie the father in question to a chair, leaving one hand free. Slap him in the face with a dead fish, repeatedly. When he grows tired of this, instruct him that he could use his free hand to cut himself loose, if only he had a knife in his possession. Hopefully, this will instill in him an appreciation for the importance of a pocket knife.

Step 3.
Present your pocket knife to him, on the condition that he provides one for his son, and allow him to cut his bindings.

Step 4.
Since you've accomplished your objective, you should be able to return to your own time (refer to an episode of Quantum Leap for more information on this process). If not, see Step 5.

Step 5.
Give the boy your knife, and split. His father will return home with tales of the horror of fish-slapping, and the boy will say "Gee, Dad, you coulda borrowed mine!"
 
You know, I have read this thread and have been thinking about it ever since I first read it. And the question has been mulling around in my head since.

I think the best way to convince someone that a slip joint is safe, is by SHOWING them how you use it.
 
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