How to fix old traditional folder rivets/pins???

[timcsaw]

I have a few old traditionals that I'd like to put new scales on but I'm not sure what to do about the rivets/pins. When the blades are closed, there is little or no space between the liner and the blade itself. If I were to peen the pins on the inside, the blades would hit the pins when you close them... is there a secret or something I'm missing about how this is done?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The handles are pinned to the covers before the knife is assembled.

 

[timcsaw]

The handles are pinned to the covers before the knife is assembled.

Thanks Bill. I think I understand. The problem is, the pins are extended through the handle, then through the liner, and then peened on the inside (in the area that holds the blade when the knife is closed) and there is no space in there for the pin to protrude into that space or the blade would hit the pin head. When the blade is closed, it rubs flush to the inside of the liner so any bit of peened pin would hit/stop the blade ....

I'll see if I can post a picture of the problem... a picture is often worth a thousand words.

 

[eisman]

i know what you're talking about. You'll have to swage them. You make a swage the same dimension as the space between the liners; taper one side of one edge. The taper will be the part the contacts the extension on the pin and bends it in the direction you're driving it. You need to make sure the entire assembly is tight between the vise jaws so there's no room for swelling if the pins try to back out. You also want to make sure the liner is relieved enough to accept the portion of the pin you're swageing.

If you want to get real tricky and cool, you could always make screws to screw the scales on from the inside. You'd need to make a nifty tool to act as the screwdriver too. It's a lot of work, but I've seen it done.

 

[timcsaw]

i know what you're talking about. You'll have to swage them. You make a swage the same dimension as the space between the liners; taper one side of one edge. The taper will be the part the contacts the extension on the pin and bends it in the direction you're driving it. You need to make sure the entire assembly is tight between the vise jaws so there's no room for swelling if the pins try to back out. You also want to make sure the liner is relieved enough to accept the portion of the pin you're swageing.

If you want to get real tricky and cool, you could always make screws to screw the scales on from the inside. You'd need to make a nifty tool to act as the screwdriver too. It's a lot of work, but I've seen it done.

Thanks eisman, but forgive me, I'm not sure what a swage is....

Here are a few picks to better define my quandary;

This first pic shows the hole in the liner where the pin would be inserted. The blade is flush with the inside of that hole and there is no space between the inside of the liner and the blade (if the pin extends beyond the inside surface of the liner, it would hit the blade itself). I put a red pen into the hole and it hits the blade.

The red pen through the liner in this next pic shows the red dot on the blade which I partially opened. If a pin were installed (and protruded inside at all), the pin would make contact with this red part of the blade when the blade was closed. It would rub and scrape against the kick on the blade unless it was absolutely flush with the inside of the liner. Of course I could peen the pin, and then grind it flush with the surface of the liner, but wouldn't that reduce the ability of the pin holding the handle material on?

This last pic shows that there is no space between the closed blade and the inside of the liner. If I were to put a pin through the handle material, then into/through the liner, and peen it on the inside of the liner, the pin would hit the blade.

If I thinned the kick on the blade, it wouldn't hit the end of the pin (doesn't sound like a good idea though). Alternately, if I created a small countersink on the inside of the hole in the liner, then the pin could be peened flush with the inside surface of the liner so the blade wouldn't hit it/rub against it.

I have assembled a few kit folders with screws which avoided this problem by countersinking the liner on the inside, so that the blade wouldn't hit the screw head (a countersunk screw obviously).

 

[timcsaw]

Perhaps a "swage" is a slight countersink that the pin "swells" into when it's being peened? After the pin has "swelled" into this countersink, it can then be ground flush with the liner?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

To install the handles properly, you need to remove the backspring rivet that goes all the way through the knife, and at least one of the end/blade pivot pins. The knife can then be swung open and the scale pins peened on the inside. This is how the knives are made.
There is a "cutler's anvil" that has a protrusion that you can put inside the blade well on an assembled knife to install/tighten handles without disassembling the knife. It requires lots of practice and skill to use.

 

[timcsaw]

To install the handles properly, you need to remove the backspring rivet that goes all the way through the knife, and at least one of the end/blade pivot pins. The knife can then be swung open and the scale pins peened on the inside. This is how the knives are made.
There is a "cutler's anvil" that has a protrusion that you can put inside the blade well on an assembled knife to install/tighten handles without disassembling the knife. It requires lots of practice and skill to use.

Thanks Bill. I do intend to remove the back spring pins on these so that I can easily get to the inside of the scale pins, but unless I can get the peened scale pins to be flush with the liner surface, I'm afraid the pins will still rub against the kick on the blades. I don't mind the peened pins being a bit "proud" on the outside (scale side) but if they are "proud" at all on the inside I think they'll rub/hit the kick.