Has anyone made any type of home-made angle jig to use when using a 2" x 8" stone? I see where you can buy some for about $26 but I figure there has to be a way to make some sort of angled wooden/steel wedge that you can draw across the stone with the blade.
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How to maintain angle when using a stone
- Thread starter molinee
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- Apr 27, 1999
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I don't think of precise angles as being that critical. I do a pretty good job using my thumb or index finger as a guide. When I am working on the left side of a blade I press my thumb against the spine such that the left side of my thumb projects a bit beyond the left surface of the blade. For a 1" wide blade I would expose something like 3/16 of an inch. If I just brush the side of my thumb on the surface as I hone I am getting around a 10 degree honing angle. If I exposed 1/4 inch of thumb I would be getting around 15 degrees. The formula is that you take the width of your blade and multiply it time the sine of the angle you want to achieve to determine how much thumb to expose. For if you have a .75 inch wide blade and you want a 20 degree bevel you expose .75sine(20)= .256 inch.
This is a little bit off since I have not allowed for blade thickness. If you have a thick blade you need to subtract 1/2 the thickness from that exposure figure. So if that .75 inch wide blade was .25" thick I would take away .125" from the .256 inch number above and expose only .131" of thumb (approximately 1/8 inch).
For the right side of the blade I use the side of my index finger as a guide. I mostly do the above when I am reprofiling a blade with a fast cutting diamond hone. I mostly eyeball it by now. I don't do the calculations that often unless I think something isn't working right or I am feeling confused by a very narrow blade.
This is a little bit off since I have not allowed for blade thickness. If you have a thick blade you need to subtract 1/2 the thickness from that exposure figure. So if that .75 inch wide blade was .25" thick I would take away .125" from the .256 inch number above and expose only .131" of thumb (approximately 1/8 inch).
For the right side of the blade I use the side of my index finger as a guide. I mostly do the above when I am reprofiling a blade with a fast cutting diamond hone. I mostly eyeball it by now. I don't do the calculations that often unless I think something isn't working right or I am feeling confused by a very narrow blade.
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- Oct 9, 1998
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- 1,767
Practice, crutches only make it worse. I've tried just about everything, just makes it worse. Practice with your hand like you would be when holding your knife, now make forward stroke repeatedly until you are satisfied you can keep your hand still. If you have to, go slow when you are sharpening, and use your other hand to help push the blade forward on the stone if you are afraid using your knife hand to apply the forward force will mess your angle up.
I lay the hone on a homemade inclined plane jig at an angle and draw the knife across horizontaly, I have no problem keeping the angle, I can easily make precise double bevels and match the angle of any knife, just use the magic marker trick and adjust the angle on the inclined plane to match the edge. I can also place a ceramic rod, a steel or a strop on the jig.
Don- If you are sitting down and facing a workbench, are you saying that the stone would be in front of you and would be facing away from you longways and would be tilted up at the far end. Then you would draw the blade horizontally across the stone. Like from left to right. So you are sharpening the blade itself from the hilt to the tip in one movement all the while keeping it horizontal??
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for your time.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
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- 233
Similar to Don Luis's approach, just different by 90 degrees -- I often will clamp one end of 2"x8" stone in a woodworking vice (w/ Masonite soft jaws) at the desired angle, and use it sort of like one-half of a heavy-duty Sharpmaker or "V"-stick sharpener. Then all you have to do is concentrate on keeping the knife vertical while you work.
I have several angle templates pre-cut out of cardboard for bevel angles I frequently use, so set up is easy. You work one side, then reset the stone to the same angle for the other side. I've thought about mounting the vice so that I could work from both sides, and would only have to set up the stone once; though as it is, it's no trouble, set up only takes a few seconds anyway.
This setup is extremely solid and stable, so you can use both hands on the knife for extra control or pressure -- especially useful for reprofiling large knives, or those with thick tips or bellies.
I have several angle templates pre-cut out of cardboard for bevel angles I frequently use, so set up is easy. You work one side, then reset the stone to the same angle for the other side. I've thought about mounting the vice so that I could work from both sides, and would only have to set up the stone once; though as it is, it's no trouble, set up only takes a few seconds anyway.
This setup is extremely solid and stable, so you can use both hands on the knife for extra control or pressure -- especially useful for reprofiling large knives, or those with thick tips or bellies.
ColoradoDave- Great idea. I will try this since I am already set up with bench and vice. In fact, there is a lock on the vice that if you loosen you can swivel the entire vice around and then can do the other side. As a new fellow Colorado-ian do you think that the 3 1/2 inch blade law is often challenged by the law...especially if you are over by a quarter inch or so. I have another question for you. Are you sharpening dry, water, or oil? I am new at the sharpening game and have a combo soft/hard 8" arkansas stone coming this week so I appreciate it that you are sharing some of your knowledge.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
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- 233
Hi, Molinee ... and welcome to Colorado. We're a native here, so sometimes get a bit critical of the place, the politicians, growth and such. But overall, it's better than a whole lotta other places to live.
Sounds like you have an ideal vice for the purpose. I've used both Crystolon (gray silicon carbide) stones with water and detergent, and India (aluminum oxide) stones with oil this way, no problems with either. Sometimes you'll want to add a bit of extra water or oil while sharpening, but no big deal there.
Also, you don't necessarily have to just make downward, "slicing" strokes like you do on a Sharpmaker. For heavy reprofiling of thick edges, I'll work the knife in a sort of circular pattern, same as you would a benchstone laying flat on the workbench. When finishing up, though, I tend to use nice, uniform downward strokes, just to leave a more uniform bevel finish, and guarantee a straight, consistent edge.
About the only thing you kind of have to watch -- other than keeping the blade pretty much vertical -- is that if you let the knife get angled a little bit left or right, it will drag along the edge/corner of the stone, rather than across the flat surface. This doesn't hurt the knife, but it feels kind of rough, and would probably cause some fast wear on Crystolon stones. But you'd figure this out quickly, it's obvious when it happens.
As for the 3-1/2 inch blade law ... most Colorado law enforcement are no problem. If you're not drunk, disorderly, being hostile, or making trouble of some kind, they have no reason to bother you, and few would risk performing a search of your person under such circumstances, since they would have no probable cause. Most officers here appreciate the citizen's right to self-defense, and give you quite a bit of leeway if they perceive you to be one of the good guys. I've known countless people who've carried concealed handguns in Colorado for years without permits ... and as one attorney I knew who did just that stated, honest, responsible citizens are cut a lot of slack.
That said, I would never *recommend* anyone break any law.
Good luck, and let me know how the sharpening trick works for you. With very little practice, you can put nice, clean bevels on blades this way, that typically look as good or better than what the factories put on.
Sounds like you have an ideal vice for the purpose. I've used both Crystolon (gray silicon carbide) stones with water and detergent, and India (aluminum oxide) stones with oil this way, no problems with either. Sometimes you'll want to add a bit of extra water or oil while sharpening, but no big deal there.
Also, you don't necessarily have to just make downward, "slicing" strokes like you do on a Sharpmaker. For heavy reprofiling of thick edges, I'll work the knife in a sort of circular pattern, same as you would a benchstone laying flat on the workbench. When finishing up, though, I tend to use nice, uniform downward strokes, just to leave a more uniform bevel finish, and guarantee a straight, consistent edge.
About the only thing you kind of have to watch -- other than keeping the blade pretty much vertical -- is that if you let the knife get angled a little bit left or right, it will drag along the edge/corner of the stone, rather than across the flat surface. This doesn't hurt the knife, but it feels kind of rough, and would probably cause some fast wear on Crystolon stones. But you'd figure this out quickly, it's obvious when it happens.
As for the 3-1/2 inch blade law ... most Colorado law enforcement are no problem. If you're not drunk, disorderly, being hostile, or making trouble of some kind, they have no reason to bother you, and few would risk performing a search of your person under such circumstances, since they would have no probable cause. Most officers here appreciate the citizen's right to self-defense, and give you quite a bit of leeway if they perceive you to be one of the good guys. I've known countless people who've carried concealed handguns in Colorado for years without permits ... and as one attorney I knew who did just that stated, honest, responsible citizens are cut a lot of slack.
That said, I would never *recommend* anyone break any law.
Good luck, and let me know how the sharpening trick works for you. With very little practice, you can put nice, clean bevels on blades this way, that typically look as good or better than what the factories put on.
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2000
- Messages
- 736
Like chang said....practice.
If you are buying good knives now and don't know how to sharpen...stop buying.
Sharpening is an ART, you must know your steel and your stones. Some say that
sharpening is a craft, something to be learned by rote, they are incorrect.
But practice never hurts..
Steve-O
If you are buying good knives now and don't know how to sharpen...stop buying.
Sharpening is an ART, you must know your steel and your stones. Some say that
sharpening is a craft, something to be learned by rote, they are incorrect.
But practice never hurts..
Steve-O
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2001
- Messages
- 1,308
All this talk about complicated contrivances to help you keep the angle consistent...
Not for me. I prefer simplicity and versatility. If one gets proficient at sharpening freehand on a simple whetstone, one can sharpen anywhere. If one is dependent on a vice on his workbench, what will he do if he is on vacation somewhere and needs to put an edge back on his EDC knife?
I would not want to be limited to sharpening only on a particular setup with a vice and an incline or whatever, which would mean I couldn't adequately sharpen my knives when away from home.
---Jeffrey
Not for me. I prefer simplicity and versatility. If one gets proficient at sharpening freehand on a simple whetstone, one can sharpen anywhere. If one is dependent on a vice on his workbench, what will he do if he is on vacation somewhere and needs to put an edge back on his EDC knife?
I would not want to be limited to sharpening only on a particular setup with a vice and an incline or whatever, which would mean I couldn't adequately sharpen my knives when away from home.
---Jeffrey
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 233
Hi again, Molinee ... and thanks for the kind words. Believe me, I've learned far, far more from the many intelligent people who post to these forums than I will ever be able to share with others.
Jeffrey raises a very good point, and of course in replying to your question about sharpening jigs, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that this system I sometimes use is the be-all and end-all; just easy, cheap and effective for anyone who happens to already have a woodworking vice mounted on their workbench. It's similar to owning a good table saw: sure, it's a wonderful tool to own ... but it won't do you one iota of good when you need to saw a tree limb.
In some respects, I'd have to say that the guy who can put a decent edge on a knife using only a small pocket stone possesses the most useful, all-around sharpening skill. And it's not that difficult of a skill for most of us to develop ... but at the same time, it isn't necessarily the most efficient, or even desirable way, to sharpen every knife, under every circumstance.
Experimenting and developing proficiency with different sharpening methods and techniques can be part of the enjoyment of the knife hobby, IMO. In the final analysis, there is no "gospel," only opinions and preferences ... and if you're able to get your knives sharp, and keep 'em sharp for the kind of work you're doing, that's all that really matters.
Jeffrey raises a very good point, and of course in replying to your question about sharpening jigs, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that this system I sometimes use is the be-all and end-all; just easy, cheap and effective for anyone who happens to already have a woodworking vice mounted on their workbench. It's similar to owning a good table saw: sure, it's a wonderful tool to own ... but it won't do you one iota of good when you need to saw a tree limb.
In some respects, I'd have to say that the guy who can put a decent edge on a knife using only a small pocket stone possesses the most useful, all-around sharpening skill. And it's not that difficult of a skill for most of us to develop ... but at the same time, it isn't necessarily the most efficient, or even desirable way, to sharpen every knife, under every circumstance.
Experimenting and developing proficiency with different sharpening methods and techniques can be part of the enjoyment of the knife hobby, IMO. In the final analysis, there is no "gospel," only opinions and preferences ... and if you're able to get your knives sharp, and keep 'em sharp for the kind of work you're doing, that's all that really matters.
When I sharpen the right side of the knife, the stone is in front of me, lengthwise left to right with the left end higher, I hold the knife in my right hand and start at the right-low side with the handle near the stone, I draw the blade to the left keeping the knife horizontal (it moves upwards as it goes to the left but stays horizontal), pulling it towards me to cover all of the blade, as I aproach the belly I rotate the knife to keep the edge against the stone, allways horizontal.
To sharpen the left side of the knife I turn the jig 90 degrees, so that the higher end is away from me, I hold the knife in my right hand at the near-low end with the handle near the stone and push it away from me keeping it always horizontal, moving it to the right to cover all the blade and turning for the belly as needed.
Actually, I often use circular motion, or draw lightly backwards spine first, sometimes I´ll use both hands to hold the knife. it depends on the size of the knife, the condition of the edge, the hone used and just how I feel it, The rule is to keep the knife horizontal all the time.
Sometimes I will sharpen a pocket knife by holding a stone in my left hand at a fixed angle at about waist level, standing up or sitting down, no table, and draw the knife horizontally over. I learned this as a kid long long time ago.
Like ColoradoDave I sometimes set the hone in a vise, the hassle here is changing hones/grits, I also sometimes use the edge of a stone, but that involves taking the knife away from the horizontal or lifting one side of the stone and takes some getting used to.
To sharpen the left side of the knife I turn the jig 90 degrees, so that the higher end is away from me, I hold the knife in my right hand at the near-low end with the handle near the stone and push it away from me keeping it always horizontal, moving it to the right to cover all the blade and turning for the belly as needed.
Actually, I often use circular motion, or draw lightly backwards spine first, sometimes I´ll use both hands to hold the knife. it depends on the size of the knife, the condition of the edge, the hone used and just how I feel it, The rule is to keep the knife horizontal all the time.
Sometimes I will sharpen a pocket knife by holding a stone in my left hand at a fixed angle at about waist level, standing up or sitting down, no table, and draw the knife horizontally over. I learned this as a kid long long time ago.
Like ColoradoDave I sometimes set the hone in a vise, the hassle here is changing hones/grits, I also sometimes use the edge of a stone, but that involves taking the knife away from the horizontal or lifting one side of the stone and takes some getting used to.
I sharpen lots of knives. I have belt sander, paper wheels, sharpmaker, edgepro and more.I learned to sharpen freehand and go by feel and sound.I sharpen all my edc's freehand to keep up my skill.. I tought myself like this. To create equal bevels on very worn knives I have wedges cut from wood at appr.20 deg.to help maintain the angle on a course sc stone,back and forth or cicular.once I get the burr up on both sides I can feel the edge and proceed through the grits freehand checking my angle occasionally with my wedges.with a lot of practice (for me anyways)eventually you get the "feel".
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- Aug 31, 2011
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I like Chang's philosophy. I am not any kind of master sharpener, but I carefully put my blade to the stone at the beginning of each stroke. Paying attention is key, and I go as slow as I need to. I am getting better and better all the time.