How to put groove a guard....

D

DHackney

Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
178
Hi Folks,

I'm working on a knife on which I hope/want to shape an oval 3/16" NS guard.
I want to grind a groove around the perimeter of the guard and need some advice
on how to do this without the aid of a mill (don't have one yet).

Many thanks,
Dana Hackney
Monument, CO
 
Hi Dana! Lay a Sharpie on its side, cap off. Place the guard on its side. mark around the edge of the guard, flip and do it again. If the lines are where you want them, then shim up the guard with some sheets of paper, cardboard, whever.

Then take a triangular file and carefully start your groove. Once it is completely around the guard, move up to a small round needle file. Keep going around and around with progressively-larger files until you are satisfied. Its hard work, but it works well. :thumbup: :D
 
Do you mean around the edge like this?

rifleman.jpg


If so, I just use a fresh 1/8" chainsaw file. Once I get the depth I want, I clean and smooth the groove with sand paper folded over a length of pin stock that's just a little under 1/8".
 
Thanks a lot, Jeff, for the suggestions. I'll give this a go as soon as I get home.
I wish work :barf: was as fun as this stuff!

Dana
 
That is exactly what I was talking about. It is so great that makers, as accomplished as yourselves, are so free with your advice.

By the way, that is one fine piece, Terry.

Thanks again,
Dana
 
Sure does ste the knife off nicely, breaks it up some. I always wondered how you guys did it.
Thanks for posting the question Dana!!
Jeff, Terry, thanks for the tips!
 
It does not matter what questions I have, these folks always are
a great help to me.

I really appreciate it :thumbup:

best regards,
Dana
 
Thanks Mark. While not a historically correct style, it is a modern interpretation of the old rifleman Bowies that were long and slim. They might not be the best choice chopping up a hickory log, but were real good for slicing and "poking".

####

I've been thinking about Jeff's idea of starting with a three corner file to establish the initial line for the groove. That sounds like a pretty good idea. Just be sure to use fresh files that have a lot of bite.

I do mine with a round file as I mentioned. A worn file ( even slightly worn ) will want to skate off to one side. When you're working with a piece that is 1/8" to 3/16" thick, you don't have much room for error. Take your time and don't try to hog the material out. Use a sharp file and let the file do the work. When I am doing this kind of thing I sort of lose track of time. But I imagine I am going around the edge at least three or four times. It could be more. I'm not sure how to explain the frame of mind, but time and the number of times around cease to exist. You just concentrate on keeping the cut centered, and the depth.
 
I mark the centerline with my height gage.

Then I rough a groove in with a cut-off wheel in my dremel.

Then do like Terry said :)

I don't do the fluting until the guard is completely finished (as well as the rest of the knife) so you have to be very careful not to slip!!!!!!! :eek:
 
Just to hijack a little....

Terry how did you fit the guard on that knife as it looks lie it is a fulltang from what I can see from the picture?

Very nice looking knife BTW :)

Cheers
Iain
 
Good eye Sunraven. I'm wondering about that too. Did it go on from the front? Thanks for posting that pic Terry wonderful piece!
Thanks for posting this thread Dana I've been wanting to do one of these too.
Ed
 
I'm not Terry, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn before.

It's not a full tang, it's a framed handle.

You make a stick tang blade, fit the guard and "ferrule" spacer, and then make a frame that fits up to the guard or spacer, and your handle slabs fit over said frame. :)
 
another hijack,
that really is a sweet looking knife Terry, everything just looks good and comes together as a truly a beautiful work of art sir! :thumbup:

Did you make that damascus yourself? : ;)
 
Nick,
How would you know that it is not a full tang?.......were you and Terry together at the Holiday Inn? :D :D :D

Seriously, how can you tell?
The whole package is still a work of art.
 
I know because I am actually Terry and Terry is actually me. :eek:

Okay, not so much ;)

I know because when Terry posted it some while ago, he noted it was a framed handle, and I pretend to know how to make a framed handle ;)

It would have been my first guess had Terry never noted it, simply because the butt end of the handle does have a really nice flare that is wider than the ricasso (which looks great!) There are only two other ways to do that besides a frame handle (that I know of anyway).

1.) do a guard that is slit in half over its length, and then solder/pin it together (for an actual full tang). JP Moss has done this.

2.) Rik Palm is the only guy I know crazy enough to do this :D Make the blade, and fit the guard, then forge the flare into the tang. He had a knife at the Reno show he did this on a couple years back. This would be SUPER hard to pull off!

As far as just looking at Terry's knife and knowing without a doubt that it isn't a full tang... NOPE, couldn't know for sure.

It is a gorgeous knife... one of my all time favorites from Terry!!! :D
 
btw- I CERTAINLY wasn't trying to take anything away from Terry's knife by saying it's not a full tang!!! I just knew how he constructed it, so I blurted it out :)

Terry is a friend and a great knifemaker, I sure hope I didn't imply anything different!
 
Nick,
I was not suggesting that you were trying to take anything away from Terry, from what I have seen on the forums that would be out of your character.

After reading your explanation about the flare of the handle.....pretty obvious, I should have thought about it first. :o

The split guard is an option but must be pretty difficult to do without a tell-tale line somewhere?

Anyway, at the risk of almost offending a few of you fine gentlemen, I have yet again learned a lot........and I did not even have to spend a night at the Holiday Inn..... :D :D
Thanks,

Mike
 
miden, thank you and yes, I make my own Damascus.

Nick is correct, this is a frame handle, and I'm glad to see that you guys looked closely enough at the knife to notice. Quite some time ago I showed how this was done, but I think my posts sometimes go unnoticed for whatever reason.

I did not take shots of the knife as it was being made, but back when someone asked about it I did some "computer magic" with my photo editing software to explain what was going on. This stuff is boring and "old hat" to the folks that have been doing it for years, but here's what the deal is:

slot.jpg


I cut out a profile of the handle. Then I trace off the tang and drill a hole at the end of the tracing. Then I cut along the tracing of the tang. This creates a slot that perfectly fits the tang.

frame_handle.jpg


The handle slabs are affixed to the frame and the frame is affixed to the tang by means of you favorite bonding agent, and at least one pin or bolt for a mechanical bond of handle to tang. Lining up of the handle to ferrule is done by pre-drilled indexing ( or alignment ) pins. This is a little bit advanced and beyond the scope of this thread. As a matter of fact, the frame handle is not within the scope of this thread. I hope I don't get my hand spanked for that. :D
 
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