How to stabilize/lock in brass after tinkering/sharpening/engraving/shaping?

S

SilvesterDuck

Joined
Feb 26, 2021
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Hi there!
I wanted to ask you guys, when it comes to brass.... How do you settle the molecules of a given brass bit or blade after tinkering with it?

This isn't 100% about blades but only a bladesmith would have such knowledge.... I basically need to stabilize a brass shim-stock after polishing it up a bit on the molecular side so that it "locks"

any tips would be appreciated.
 
Your profile does not say where you are, but there may be a translation error here, Can you explain the "molecules/molecular" and what the issue is?

If I had to guess, I think you mean the "lock side". After polishing or doing any adjustments, if the lock does not work right, you may have to change the shim washer thickness. On a folder with a pivot you can usually tighten the pivot a bit to take out slop.
 
Hey Sylvester, are you talking about making it hard? So that your engraving or whatever is less likely to be damaged?

If so, it's not like steel. It can't really be hardened through heating and cooling like steel can. You can "work harden" it, by basically beating on it with a hammer, not bending it repeatedly.
 
Hey guys sorry for the delay.
I am from Israel, nice to be here :)
Let me explain...

I am shaving minute amounts of metal from brass reeds on musical instruments because that's how you tune them for the exact note... The tuning is done with a pen-engraver, kind of like a nail polish rotary.

I have found that when you stress brass like that, they will often "detune" during the next week or so that you put it back on the shelf after tuning... Probably due to the molecular stabilization of brass after stressing it.

I wanted to ask a bladesmith if there's a way to "stabilize" and "speed up" that recovery process, so that I can do it and then retune the instrument faster, in order to be able to ship them out faster to customers.
Something I can dip brass in-to to "lock' the structure and thus the tuning.... Or maybe heat/cold, I wouldn't know. What do you guys do to "settle in" a soft metal after grinding and shaping it?

Not exactly blade question but like I said, ONLY a smith would know something like that.... So that's my only hope.
 
SilvesterDuck said:
Hey guys sorry for the delay.
I am from Israel, nice to be here :)
Let me explain...

I am shaving minute amounts of metal from brass reeds on musical instruments because that's how you tune them for the exact note... The tuning is done with a pen-engraver, kind of like a nail polish rotary.

I have found that when you stress brass like that, they will often "detune" during the next week or so that you put it back on the shelf after tuning... Probably due to the molecular stabilization of brass after stressing it.

I wanted to ask a bladesmith if there's a way to "stabilize" and "speed up" that recovery process, so that I can do it and then retune the instrument faster, in order to be able to ship them out faster to customers.
Something I can dip brass in-to to "lock' the structure and thus the tuning.... Or maybe heat/cold, I wouldn't know. What do you guys do to "settle in" a soft metal after grinding and shaping it?

Not exactly blade question but like I said, ONLY a smith would know something like that.... So that's my only hope.
Click to expand...
so im not a expert on brass but . you harden it by imparting stress into it (work hardening) .
you remove stress from it by heating to glowing red and dipping in water (annealing it) .
i don't believe there is any way to (Heat treat) it as it is simply lead/tin/zinc mix to make it..
try to show a picture of it !! i googled it and think i saw it (but not 100% sure)...
What type of Brass is used as there are several ?
 
Hi! Thanks for the comment!

Here's the brass reed-plate

iu


Tuning is done by removing material from either the free end or the rivet-end. (note the shiny areas where it's filed)
The problem is, those thin brass reeds destabilize after you do that and need like 2-3 weeks to settle and show stable tuning. Nothing that an ordinary person can hear, but you can't really ship it professionally when it's not perfect.... Hence my curiosity
 
This is a factor of the immediate work hardening caused by the grinder rubbing the reed and surface hardening the brass. Then in time, there is age hardening and perhaps some relaxing. The final result will take several weeks, as you have found out. Re-tune again and see if you can zero in on the right combination.

Another experiment would be to deliberately tune it either sharp or flat as needed so it is at the right pitch in 3 weeks.

I used to be an oboe player and made my own reeds. You would trim the two slices of cane until they met perfectly around a 1/4" rod. Then they were sanded to thin them. The two blanks were bound on a brass tube with waxed linen thread. After final trimming of the tip and sides I would spend hours shaving the reed with the edge of a freshly broken piece of glass. The thickness and taper to the tip would determine how much pressure was needed by the lips and how loud the reed would play. You wanted some that were hard, some medium, and some soft. Once done, the end of the tube was cut off and cork was applied to make the reed able to be inserted in the oboe. The reeds had to be moist to work right, and it was not uncommon to see the oboist walking around or setting up his music with four or five reeds stuck in his mouth before a concert.
 
Thanks very very much for your response!
A confirmation that I must wait it out is also good :) At least now I won't be sour about it heheh :)

You're great, thanks and I wish you great success!
 
so i tried to look it up on "Google" it looks like you can precipitation harden brass , also called forced aging..
from what i saw it looked a little complicated.... maybe try using a different way of removing material ?? sand paper instead of power tools,
it looked like it (aging) brass was a way to harden it after working stress into it by working it
and the most common thing was 2 weeks time to allow everything to settle back down ,after working it..
but a little that i saw said a low temp held for a while (150 degrees) could help its settle time reduce..
again i don't know for sure as most "Knife guys" don't work on/in brass very much . sorry to not be more help !!
but you could look it up and maybe find better answers than i did... regardless good luck on the quest for more knowledge (a better mouse trap)
 
Precipitation hardening is different than age hardening. It involves bringing the alloy to a temperature below the liquidus point and letting the elements combine more evenly. This would not be possible on the reed plate.

Forced age hardening is simpler, but it would be sort of a crap shoot in a case like the reed plate shown. It may change other reeds. I did not mention it for that reason. Age hardening works best from an annealed state, so that is another reason that the reed plate will not be a good candidate for the procedure.

If one wants to try forced age hardening on simple items, heat the copper/metal alloy (sterling silver, gold alloys, nickel silver, brass) to 600°F/315°C and hold for an hour. Let air cool to ambient.
 
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