How to Stabilize Wood?

[jimbowie7]

What chemicals do you use (brand name)?

Process?

Thanks!

 

[Nobleforge]

I'd never try it in a million years.

I send ALL my bones, antler and and wood to Mike at WSSI. He's THE man!

 

[Walking Man]

There are do it yourself kits. This has been brought up before, I recommend doing a search.
But, let me ask the experienced guys this. Is it REALLY necessary to send your wood away?
I started thinking about this a little bit, and after all, A)the pieces that are needed to make a knife aren't really that thick and B) Even if the knife isn't stablized all the way through, the knife is still very well sealed, not allowing moisture in or out, which is the main cause of warpage or shrinking right?

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

Is it REALLY necessary to send your wood away?

<snip>

A)the pieces that are needed to make a knife aren't really that thick and

B) Even if the knife isn't stablized all the way through, the knife is still very well sealed, not allowing moisture in or out, which is the main cause of warpage or shrinking right?

If customers and collectors request stabilized wood, yes.

A) Thickness has nothing to do with wood density. Wood density and grain are the main factors in determining how wood dries and how much stabiliant will be absorbed. Compare snakewood to spalted maple.

B) Moisture content determines how much stabiliant will be absorbed. If the wood is not dried thoroughly and evenly, it will move after stabilization. Has this happened to you? Please describe your and/or your customers experiences with stabilized wood.

-------------------------

Having stabiliant penetrate the wood is only part of the process of stabilization. This cannot be stressed enough.

We sell lots of wood. We have several types that are available natural and stabilized. The stabilized out sells the natural by a huge margin. I would be happy to sell only natural wood. We would save thousands of dollars on stabilizing and time shipping wood back and forth to WSSI. But this is not realistic. Why? Collectors want stabilized woods. They get what they want.

jimbowie7,
If you are going to advertise to collectors your wood as being stabilized, send it in to Mike Ludeman at WSSI or one of the other professional stabilizers and have it professionally processed or explain to them how you do your own stabilizing. Do not stabilize the wood yourself and let collectors think it was professionally stabilized. That is like using Devon Thomas damascus and letting the collector think you made it yourself.

If you plan to stabilize your own wood do yourself a favor and buy a good moisture meter. Wood should not be stabilized until the moisture gets down below 12%. I don't care what anyone says, moisture content cannot be determined by feel, touch or voodoo. We prefer to get the wood below 6% before sending it to WSSI. If the moisture is above 12% the stabiliant will not penetrate as much as is necessary and the wood will move around on the knife as it dries.

Stabilizing some woods is like wearing belt and suspenders. It is not required but it does give some people a feeling of confidence.

 

[NickWheeler]

What Chuck and Nobleforge said

You cannot begin to accomplish what Mike Ludeman does with his process at Wood Stabilizing Specialists Int.

You can't, nor would you want to, buy/use the chemical that Mike uses.

In the scheme of things, it's damn cheap.

There are fellas like Dan Farr that really give justice to woods like Walnut with his finishing process.

But for what I make, and how I make it, WSSI is the way to go

-Nick-
http://www.wheelerknives.com

 

[Walking Man]

Chuck, and others. thanks for the info. I am not a knifemaker, no do I have any great experience with wood. I was just thinking out loud.

 

[Nobleforge]

"If you are going to advertise to collectors your wood as being stabilized, send it in to Mike Ludeman at WSSI or one of the other professional stabilizers and have it professionally processed or explain to them how you do your own stabilizing. Do not stabilize the wood yourself and let collectors think it was professionally stabilized. That is like using Devon Thomas damascus and letting the collector think you made it yourself."

Amen. :thumbup:

 

[schwartzbunt]

What about this Tutorial from NorthCoast Knifes

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I'll just add that you can seal your wood yourself,but without a lot of equipment and chemicals,you won't get it truly stabilized.Sealing traps in whatever moisture is there,so make sure it is really dry (6-10%) before doing any wood treatment.Send it to WSSI and get it done right.Home treatments are fair to poor usually,and only treat the surface most of the time.Some home treatments are downright dangerous.
As has been argured before,Minwax is not a stabilizing resin,but is a penetrating varnish.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

What about this Tutorial from NorthCoast Knifes

I just read the tutorial and it did not mention moisture content. In my opinion this is a serious flaw in the process.

 

[R.Coon-Knives]

I could be mistaken here but I believe that when you put water under vacuum, it boils off because of the low pressure.

I sometimes stabilize wood in Watco Danish Oil finish by putting the handle in a jar of the Watco and pulling a vacuum on it. (transparent laboratory vacuum chamber) It foams like an Alka Seltzer for quite a while (depending upon the wood). I usually only leave it in for ten minutes or so or until the foaming has subsided. I have done tests and the Watco penetrates the wood completely. Watco is linseed oil based I believe. After about a week of curing the Watco has thoroughly polymerized and the handle is very hard all the way through. I have done this to maple burl that could be impressed by a fingernail before stabilizing but which was very hard afterward.
Works for me.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

I could be mistaken here but I believe that when you put water under vacuum, it boils off because of the low pressure.

Vacuum will cause water to evaporate.

I used to do refrigeration work. When we finished the piping we always pulled vacuum to get the moisture out of the system. It commonly took a few days to dry out a system. We could tell when the the moisture was gone because the system would hold a vacuum. As long as there was moisture the vacuum would gradually drop.

I'm sure the foaming is the water being pulled out of the block and the moisture evaporating. If I were stabilizing this way I would use refrigeration gages to determine when to stop pulling a vacuum. The gages are inexpensive and easy to use.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611711127&ccitem=

 

[Doug C]

I'd never try it in a million years.

I send ALL my bones, antler and and wood to Mike at WSSI. He's THE man!

Interesting! I didn't know antler needed to be stabilized,is that true even if the horns are well seasoned,dried and years old,I only ask because I have about a dozen sets of racks,mostly white-tailed but two nice muley racks.Don't forge or even stock removal,buy blades and guard and handle them.Anywho,handled one in mahogany and set up a jig on saw to cut horn slabs in half and inset/inlaid them in the wood,just drilled them and pinned them to the blade.One pin through the horn slabs and one pin in front and one pin behind the inlaid horn.Turned out OK but nothing I'd post pics of in here.Thanks.