How to suture

thatmguy

thatmguy

Joined
Mar 26, 2000
Messages
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I was reading another thread here, and it got me thinking.

What is a good way, or place, to learn how to properly suture something?

I'd rather learn right the first time, and not just sew something like I would a pair of split out pants.

Figure this knowledge would be good if it ever came to ME needing to use it....
 
I have taken suturing classes as an RN and we practiced on pig legs. We would cut the leg then sew it up. The texture and feel of the needle and suture going through the skin was simular to that of human flesh.

That being said I must say there is a lot more to consider than just sewing. First and most important is that the wound must be cleaned,then cleaned,then cleaned.... if you suture up a dirty wound you can cause more problems than you have helped. Cleaning a wound in a survival,outdoor setting can be very difficult. Second,suturing a wound without anasthesia can be most painful and near impossible on some people. After cleaning a wound it is very tender and I've seen the biggest and toughest cry and fight at the pain when the numbing would wear off or not be complete. Also, deep cuts require different kinds of sutures,desolving sutures, and multiple layers according to the depth. Finaly, without skill suturing someones face or exposed body part can leave bad scaring. And if you are suturing yourself it would be very difficult to suture an upper extremety or your face.


A better alternative would be steri strips,butterfly bandage,or dermabond which is basicly superglue for the skin. Direct preasure will control bleeding and if someone is injured that bad the need rescued insted of sewn up. Just something to think about while you're practicing on that hog.:)

Dean
 
[Quote from 3nails: I have taken suturing classes as an RN and we practiced on pig legs. We would cut the leg then sew it up. The texture and feel of the needle and suture going through the skin was simular to that of human flesh.]

Was the pig dead or alive? I hope it was a dead pig!! If it was alive, did it give its permission? I question the ethics of this school....sounds barbaric and cruel and unnecessary....why not cut humans and test on humans? preferably rapists, murderers, child molesters etc.......I hope the pig was dead.....Just very concerned when something like this is posted in a forum. Nothing personal.

Try butterfly sutures...start at the centre of the wound and work your way to the ends. This requires no prior training, an idiot could do it and is readily available, oh and you don't need a pig to practice on.

;)
 
One thing I make sure I have at every show is Super Glue and surgical tape. The ATC hawks were so sharp that for the first three weeks working here I was breaking out the Super Glue almost daily and man does it work.

I've seen the ads for Dermabond and if you go to the website you'll find that the main ingredient is acrylamide which is Super Glue. Stings like you know what at first but it works and it works for sometimes more than a week.
 
I once had stitches removed from my mouth before the anasthesia kicked in and it f#%&ing hurt:eek: The Doc had to open me up because they forgot to ligate (spelling) the artery that was openned when a big guy pushed my teeth threw my upper lip with his fist. I was an EMT at the time, and told the doc that it was an arterial bleed, and was ignored. The second the swell went down I started pumping, and called my FD an they transported. The doc, gave me a shot then started yanking the stitches out with a clamp. The shot had not kicked in yet, and you can guess the rest. After I was done yelling at the doc. they were glad I left, and did not sue. Good luck giving yourself or someone else field sutures.

Reagan
 
You can buy J&J Liquid Bandage now, which is the same thing as Dermabond (2-octylcyanoacrylate) Regular Super Glue is not the same, and could be dangerous to tissues. I agree w/ the use of steri-strips - they are generally the safest way for someone w/ minimal training to approximate a wound. Be safe.
 
3Nails comments illustrate why, after researching the issue, I decided not to bother to carry sutures. My medical kits are loosely patterned after Doug Ritter's (see www.equipped.com). I have a slimmed down version for backpacking and a beefed up version for home and car camping. Both include surgical closures instead of sutures.

IMO the value of sutures and the required training depends on your purposes. Since most of my trips are in the Cascades and Olympics and reasonably close to help, I'm usually 24 to 48 hours from "real" medical attention. If my partner or I get hurt the objective is to stabilize the injured person so he or she can hike out or so the uninjured person can go get help.
 
[Was the pig dead or alive? I hope it was a dead pig!! If it was alive, did it give its permission? I question the ethics of this school....sounds barbaric and cruel and unnecessary....why not cut humans and test on humans? preferably rapists, murderers, child molesters etc.......I hope the pig was dead.....Just very concerned when something like this is posted in a forum. Nothing personal.]


thortso,
i am very concerned that you would think that experimentation on unanesthatized animals in a medical setting would be condoned. there are very strict guidelines for the use of animals in medical teaching. i am also very saddened that you would suggest that practicing on unaneshtatized humans should be performed. the pigs feet that are mentioned are just that pigs feet and are not attached to a live pig, the skin texture of a pig's foot is very similar to of human skin so the feel for suturing is much the same. that is why they are used.
alex
 
Just make sure what you are taping, gluing or tying shut is not too deep or is a true stab or punture type wound. These need to be packed with a sterile gauze and allowed to heal from the inside out. Close a wound that is too deep for stitches and you have just turned your body into a petri dish.
Yes pigs feet way to inhumane, I prefer manatee skin.
 
Alco141, has your name changed from 3nails? Perhaps 3nails can speak for himself..hmmm?:)

I don't care what the conditions in medical experimentation....I am just totally against it. If they are just pig's feet from a butcher, well ok I guess if you are not going to eat them you can do what you like with them. And yes, I would prefer to experiment on humans, after all, we could volunteer, as they do in Europe, and they get paid well for it. You see, they have a choice. Animal experimentation in the name of science just sucks big time. That is my opinion and no argument ( I have heard them all) will change my mind....enough said.:D :D :D
 
well thortso,
i guess if that is your opinion then we should all learn to think just like you. sound like your opinion should be the only one that is of any consequence. there should be no balance, no other considerations, must be great to live in such a smug and black and white world where you can experiment on humans against there will because somehow their crimes have made them less noble than a pigs foot.

have a nice day
 
Originally posted by alco141
well thortso,
i guess if that is your opinion then we should all learn to think just like you. sound like your opinion should be the only one that is of any consequence. there should be no balance, no other considerations, must be great to live in such a smug and black and white world where you can experiment on humans against there will because somehow their crimes have made them less noble than a pigs foot.

have a nice day
Click to expand...

alco141, it seems as though you have misunderstood me. I did not say a pig's foot only. I said experimenting on live animals for any reason whatsoever. If it was merely a pig's foot from the butcher, then you can nail it to a tree for all I care. As for experimenting on humans against their will, well, I guess you have not been exposed to "humans" who rape 10 month old babies, or 2 month old babies, and get nothing but a life sentence. If you were a father, you would understand. And yes, I would have no compunction whatsoever to experiment on, no, torture such savages. A mere prison sentence or even the death penalty is not good enough for this type of bottom-dwelling scum. To even mention the word noble, is obscene. And like I said, it is my opinion, you are entitled to your opinion and let's leave it at that. Nothing personal.:D
 
ThorTso no offence mate but you really need to get back on track, since when did anyone mention experimenting on animals? or raping babies?

Start up another thread somewhere else if you feel the need to air your political and moral views.
alco141, it seems as though you have misunderstood me. I did not say a pig's foot only. I said experimenting on live animals for any reason whatsoever
Click to expand...

I think it was your misunderstanding that got you here in the first place.

Will
 
Yes, please keep as many of your responses to the subject I started with.

We all have our own views, opinions, and ethics. They will never all be the same, but each should be respected.

I've got butterfly band-aids. Is there a good reason to chose one brand over another? I've heard good things about Biersdorf products.

I just want to find something that will get me back to civilization and expert medical help.

Of course, if the SHTF ever, I'd prefer to know how to suture.

Are the only means self-taught or med-school?

Thanks.
 
in my mini kit I have a curved needle.....for suturing of course??????

have I ever sutured?......well no:o :o :o

this is why I posted the pond fishing thread. I have got so many things packed and some of them just "look good!"

I figured I'd pull a rambo to a knife wound in the wilderness.:rolleyes:

somewhere in the back of my mind I thought I'd pull it off. but I am going to get real experience now or dump it.


thanks for posting.
 
Suturing one's self is near impossible??? I don't think so. Now, mind, I have never done it, but I saw "Rambo: First Blood," and when Sly Stallone (Rambo), got a deep, huge cut in his upper arm, he just whipped out the ol' needle 'n thread from his survival knife and sewed it up! Oh, he grimaced a bit, but pretty quick, he was ready-for-Freddie, yet again.

Didn't seem hard to me.

L.W.
 
suturing is something that is like any repetative and somewhat complex skill, it requires a great deal of time and practice to learn to do properly. one of the hardest parts is to learn how much tension that you can put on the suture material before it will break. different materials and different thicknesses of suture have different strengths obviously, so you need to learn this by the feel of the suture that you are using. as far as closing a wound, the caviat is that if you do not close a wound within about six to eight hours (depends on who you read) then that wound should not be closed but left to heal as the wound is considered contaminated and as such runs a very high infection risk.

now what would you reccomend as far as wound closure in the wilds you ask, well it may be difficult to clean a wound properly in the woods. the butterflies are good, some of the alaskan hunters i have worked with just wrap it in duct tape for a week or two untill it heals, i guess you could try that if you needed to. if you notice any signs of infection such as reddness, swelling or wound drainage, open the wound and let it drain, if you try to keep it closed it could become a very serious problem for you possibly life threatening.

alex
 
My apologies to everyone in this thread. I got carried away and got off the topic totally. Please accept my humble apologies. I do not know what came over me. I guess we have had our fair share of that sort of thing in the local press lately, and I took it out on alco141.....please accept my apologies.

Now back to suturing.......there is a wound staple gun I believe, which requires little or no experience to use for open wounds. Has anyone seen those?
 
skin staple guns have been used for many years, i think that some of the emergency preparedness websites are selling them, and they do work, will close the wound, and are used in emergency rooms as they are quick and dont take much skill to use, some dont use any local anesthetic just pop in the staples. gives the patient a few pinches and the wound is closed. i have never tried this so cant comment on its use without local. i have used skin staples a lot in the o.r. and they work well. again you have the problem with would decontamination in the field.

alex
 
Just received a staple from Chinook Medical Gear Inc and they also sell sutures if you are keen. You need to take care and be properly trained to use them.
www.chinookmed.com
Check their site.
Hope this helps.

Oliver
 
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