How To Tell If A Knife's a FAKE!

S

Stargater

Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
115
I recently bought a Cold Steel Rawles Voyager on eBay. Then I noticed something odd. The left side of the blade looked fine (as well as any chisel grind can look fine), but when I looked at the right side, there was nothing. It had the DLC coating, but that was it. There was no writing. No "Cold Steel" or "Taiwan" or "CTS-XHP." The answer was obvious.

I'd been had. It was an obvious FAKE! A counterfeit.

Or was it?

I contacted the seller and left my phone number and later in the day got a call. The knife, he said, was quite genuine. He'd ordered a number of them right from Cold Steel and he offered to send me a copy of the receipt. He said he'd given me a good price on it because the box was a bit buggered and it had been returned. And the knife did look and feel like the real McCoy. So my good nature prevailed and I believed him. He was a nice guy.

But then my suspicious nature emerged. Not towards the seller. I began to suspect the fellow who returned the knife. Could it be that he ordered a knife, but had returned another? There were things that didn't look right, but I determined to ask here. I'd just bought a Frenzy a week before and the new box was expected. Not the sky blue one but the new black one. The Frenzy box had a label affixed to the side, but this knife's label was printed on the flap.

The size of the retention screw also was a smaller hex size than the ones in photos. And the thumb studs were close, but not quite right, and the slotted stud was on the left side of the blade and most of Cold Steel's slotted studs were on the right side.

So my question is, how likely is it that I got a fake? Am I making too much out of these things? Perhaps they forgot to stamp the right side of the blade with the company name, the name of the country and the steel? The whole right side was jet black. And if it was genuine, do I have a collector's item? How uniform are the retention screws? Does the fact that it takes a slightly smaller hex driver a sign of perfidy? The scale pattern is assiduously correct, and the serration pattern is...well, very Cold Steel.

I know the counterfeiters are paying a lot of attention to detail, but what of the missing information on the right side of the blade? Is it worth me asking him to exchange it, which would be a pain? What do you think? Have I been had?
 
Well you could ask the seller to check his remaining stock and see if the blades have the correct writing.
I would be suspicious as well and inclined to return the item.
 
Stargater said:
I recently bought a Cold Steel Rawles Voyager on eBay. Then I noticed something odd. The left side of the blade looked fine (as well as any chisel grind can look fine), but when I looked at the right side, there was nothing. It had the DLC coating, but that was it. There was no writing. No "Cold Steel" or "Taiwan" or "CTS-XHP." The answer was obvious.

I'd been had. It was an obvious FAKE! A counterfeit.

Or was it?

I contacted the seller and left my phone number and later in the day got a call. The knife, he said, was quite genuine. He'd ordered a number of them right from Cold Steel and he offered to send me a copy of the receipt. He said he'd given me a good price on it because the box was a bit buggered and it had been returned. And the knife did look and feel like the real McCoy. So my good nature prevailed and I believed him. He was a nice guy.

But then my suspicious nature emerged. Not towards the seller. I began to suspect the fellow who returned the knife. Could it be that he ordered a knife, but had returned another? There were things that didn't look right, but I determined to ask here. I'd just bought a Frenzy a week before and the new box was expected. Not the sky blue one but the new black one. The Frenzy box had a label affixed to the side, but this knife's label was printed on the flap.

The size of the retention screw also was a smaller hex size than the ones in photos. And the thumb studs were close, but not quite right, and the slotted stud was on the left side of the blade and most of Cold Steel's slotted studs were on the right side.

So my question is, how likely is it that I got a fake? Am I making too much out of these things? Perhaps they forgot to stamp the right side of the blade with the company name, the name of the country and the steel? The whole right side was jet black. And if it was genuine, do I have a collector's item? How uniform are the retention screws? Does the fact that it takes a slightly smaller hex driver a sign of perfidy? The scale pattern is assiduously correct, and the serration pattern is...well, very Cold Steel.

I know the counterfeiters are paying a lot of attention to detail, but what of the missing information on the right side of the blade? Is it worth me asking him to exchange it, which would be a pain? What do you think? Have I been had?
Click to expand...
I think it's very likely that it's a fake. What is the seller's username on ebay? If it ain't one of the few trusted sellers on there, then it's a fake. I'm not sure why people never seem to identify the seller on these "is it fake" posts. It would help a lot. And why are you buying production knives on ebay? Great chance of buying a fake, unless it's one of the few sellers there who are supposed to be legitimate. Buy factory knives from reputable dealers.
 
Stargater said:
I recently bought a Cold Steel Rawles Voyager on eBay. Then I noticed something odd. The left side of the blade looked fine (as well as any chisel grind can look fine), but when I looked at the right side, there was nothing. It had the DLC coating, but that was it. There was no writing. No "Cold Steel" or "Taiwan" or "CTS-XHP." The answer was obvious.

I'd been had. It was an obvious FAKE! A counterfeit.

Or was it?

I contacted the seller and left my phone number and later in the day got a call. The knife, he said, was quite genuine. He'd ordered a number of them right from Cold Steel and he offered to send me a copy of the receipt. He said he'd given me a good price on it because the box was a bit buggered and it had been returned. And the knife did look and feel like the real McCoy. So my good nature prevailed and I believed him. He was a nice guy.

But then my suspicious nature emerged. Not towards the seller. I began to suspect the fellow who returned the knife. Could it be that he ordered a knife, but had returned another? There were things that didn't look right, but I determined to ask here. I'd just bought a Frenzy a week before and the new box was expected. Not the sky blue one but the new black one. The Frenzy box had a label affixed to the side, but this knife's label was printed on the flap.

The size of the retention screw also was a smaller hex size than the ones in photos. And the thumb studs were close, but not quite right, and the slotted stud was on the left side of the blade and most of Cold Steel's slotted studs were on the right side.

So my question is, how likely is it that I got a fake? Am I making too much out of these things? Perhaps they forgot to stamp the right side of the blade with the company name, the name of the country and the steel? The whole right side was jet black. And if it was genuine, do I have a collector's item? How uniform are the retention screws? Does the fact that it takes a slightly smaller hex driver a sign of perfidy? The scale pattern is assiduously correct, and the serration pattern is...well, very Cold Steel.

I know the counterfeiters are paying a lot of attention to detail, but what of the missing information on the right side of the blade? Is it worth me asking him to exchange it, which would be a pain? What do you think? Have I been had?
Click to expand...

Take detailed pictures pls

Use this site, upload detailed images.

Right click uploaded image and select copy url. Now look at the tool bar at the top above the box where we type text. See there is an icon which is a picture of the sun and two mountain peaks.

Click this icon and paste the copied url into the box that pops up and hit insert.
 
nephron said:
I believe you have to be a paying member to post pictures.
Click to expand...

Nope

I am not a paying member.

And yet...
21911145_127993941261668_4890286167368400896_n.jpg


And i'm not even breaking any rules.
 
Even the definite counterfeits I posted about above have the writing on both sides !
 
looking for a bargin always turns into posts like this. buy from reputable dealers. they are often the same price, give or take a couple bucks. when something is too cheap be scared and dont take that big of a risk unless you are an expert on the product and are willing to take that big of a risk. there are no bargins on the internet anymore. the few bargins youll run into will be dwarfed by the fakes youll end up with.
 
I contacted the fellow who sold me the knife. Very nice guy. Very eager to please. He said at first that it was no counterfeit, that he'd purchased fifteen of them directly from Cold Steel. He even offered to send me a copy. But he'd sent the knife out to a seller, who then returned it. I called COLD STEEL and talked to a fellow named Corey. He said that many of their dealers have sent good knives out only to have them returned as fakes.

The seller didn't want to think the guy who returned it would do such a thing, but the evidence was overwhelming. Nothing on the right side of the blade. No logo, no blade steel. Just the black coating. Next giveaway, the pivot screw was of a non-standard size. I got out my box of CS knives and photographed the knives showing the pivot screws of all of them next to the suspect knife. It was 1-2 sizes smaller (not the screw, the hex size). I even had an old Night Force knife from years ago. The pivot size was standard. Next, the spine spring was recessed into the frame. Actually it feels kind of neat, but definitely not CS tolerances. Finally, the thumb studs had the screw slit side on the left and not the right side of the blade. And it wasn't deep. I next got a photo of a fake knife and created an inset, illustrating this. Thus, on two photos I pretty much put together an airtight case.

mCJ63sj.jpg


And BELOW are the photos of the counterfeit knives on the left, and the knife I was sent on the right. The slotted thumb stud is on the front of the knife. In most COLD STEEL knives, it's on the other side. Added up, the knife's a counterfeit.

M330a43.jpg


I did not want to trudge down to the Post Office to return the knife, so I offered him the price the fake knives were going for on eBay ($29 plus) and determined to keep it. Since I carry these knives for self defense much of the time, it will serve its purpose. Also, to be honest, the blade steel is very sharp. I've bought cheap 440A knives in the past and the bloody things could never GET sharp regardless. Maybe it's 420J2 for all I know. That and all the 420s I've seen can be sharpened, but they quickly lose what sharpness they have.

I suspect that within a year, these fake knives will be completely indistinguishable from the real ones. They're already close. The sellers maintain the steel is D2 (rhymes with "It could happen to YOU!"), but I could call toadstools mushrooms. Who knows? The coating looks dead on to what CS is producing.

DocJD said:
Even the definite counterfeits I posted about above have the writing on both sides !
Click to expand...
Yes, but at first I was so convinced by his sincerity. Right up to the end he was convinced it was the real deal! He wrote:

It's not a counterfeit. I have the original receipt from the Cold Steel factory order showing the exact number I purchased which I can send to you. These were first run knives ordered just after they were announced. We ordered them well before any knock offs could hit the market. Cold Steel has my exact order on file.​

He didn't know the knife returned to him by the first buyer had been switched and didn't want to believe it even when it was fairly apparent. Nobody wants to think someone would do something like that, but surprisssssse! It happens. I don't know whether he knew the guy personally or not, but he finally had to face the facts. The fellow I spoke to at COLD STEEL says it's happening all the time. Their dealers get knives back, they don't personally inspect them closely and then they find out the knives have been switched. He said even they've gotten faked knives returned to them. And they've gotten knives back that owners were returning under warranty for repair. Only they were fakes.

 
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Stargater said:
I'd love to oblige, but it appears your URL got stripped. I have photos, but know of no way to place them here.

I contacted the fellow who sold me the knife. Very nice guy. Very eager to please. He said at first that it was no counterfeit, that he'd purchased fifteen of them directly from Cold Steel. He even offered to send me a copy. But he'd sent the knife out to a seller, who then returned it. I called COLD STEEL and talked to a fellow named Corey. He said that many of their dealers have sent good knives out only to have them returned as fakes.

The seller didn't want to think the guy who returned it would do such a thing, but the evidence was overwhelming. Nothing on the right side of the blade. No logo, no blade steel. Just the black coating. Next giveaway, the pivot screw was of a non-standard size. I got out my box of CS knives and photographed the knives showing the pivot screws of all of them next to the suspect knife. It was 1-2 sizes smaller (not the screw, the hex size). I even had an old Night Force knife from years ago. The pivot size was standard. Next, the spine spring was recessed into the frame. Actually it feels kind of neat, but definitely not CS tolerances. Finally, the thumb studs had the screw slit side on the left and not the right side of the blade. And it wasn't deep. I next got a photo of a fake knife and created an inset, illustrating this. Thus, on two photos I pretty much put together an airtight case.

I did not want to trudge down to the Post Office to return the knife, so I offered him the price the fake knives were going for on eBay ($29 plus) and determined to keep it. Since I carry these knives for self defense much of the time, it will serve its purpose. Also, to be honest, the blade steel is very sharp. I've bought cheap 440A knives in the past and the bloody things could never GET sharp regardless. Maybe it's 420J2 for all I know. That and all the 420s I've seen can be sharpened, but they quickly lose what sharpness they have.

I suspect that within a year, these fake knives will be completely indistinguishable from the real ones. They're already close. The sellers maintain the steel is D2 (rhymes with "It could happen to YOU!"), but I could call toadstools mushrooms. Who knows? The coating looks dead on to what CS is producing.


Yes, but at first I was so convinced by his sincerity. Right up to the end he was convinced it was the real deal! He wrote:

It's not a counterfeit. I have the original receipt from the Cold Steel factory order showing the exact number I purchased which I can send to you. These were first run knives ordered just after they were announced. We ordered them well before any knock offs could hit the market. Cold Steel has my exact order on file.​

He didn't know the knife returned to him by the first buyer had been switched and didn't want to believe it even when it was fairly apparent. Nobody wants to think someone would do something like that, but surprisssssse! It happens. I don't know whether he knew the guy personally or not, but he finally had to face the facts. The fellow I spoke to at COLD STEEL says it's happening all the time. Their dealers get knives back, they don't personally inspect them closely and then they find out the knives have been switched. He said even they've gotten faked knives returned to them. And they've gotten knives back that owners were returning under warranty for repair. Only they were fakes.
Click to expand...

Try uploading pictures to imgur.com instead. I know that is working for me.

Edit: I have a real Emerson where they didn't stamp the blade properly. It is missing all the info and words, only has the logo. (The lines graphic that appears around the words like "cqc7v" on the presentation side of the blade.) It happens some times that the blade is misprint.

Also notice that on these CS knives thr thumbstud is essentially just a threaded bar. If it was sticking out one side too far it was probably just threaded in too much or too little. If the problem is that it is threaded in from the wrong side maybe a left handed worker assembled that knife.

Either way without pictures it is hard to make a judgement call.

So www.imgur.com . Upload pictures copy url of pic and paste in box that comes with the two mountains. Paste and hit insert.
 
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