How to tell old file steels- W1 or W2?

[MSCantrell]

So I hammered a "squirrel tail knife" (like the one posted not too long ago by IronWolf here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391254) out of an old Nicholson file. I'm pretty proud of it so far- I'll post pics when it's ready.

I'm curious, though. If old files are almost always either W1 or W2, how do you tell the difference? Also, does it matter much in terms of heat treating, etc?

Is "heat it to non-magnetic and dunk in oil" dependable enough? On the one hand, I've heard that W means it's a water-hardening steel. On the other, I've heard that you should never quench a knife in water. What's the story?

Thanks guys,
Mike

 

[rashid11]

No practical difference in quenching of W1/W2. Unless you have a spectrograph, I don't think you'd be able to tell the 2 apart.

DON"T use water as quenching media. Start with oil.

If you want to know why, try heatring some scrap metal of
same composition/same shape/thickness and quench it in
water. It will most likely
crack right during quench or afterwards. Most of us here were too stubborn to trust others and went through this with a real blade
(not scrap material) .

You CAN use water/brine as quench, but you'd need to use interrupted
quench and that'd be more art than science: you quench for about
1 sec, withdraw, drop the temp to 400F in 3mins, by touching the
blade with wet burlap, and then let it cool to room temp in 15 mins,
in air.

 

[Bruce Evans]

Ok This is what has been being discussed on the Mystery steel thread..First are you sure your files are W-1 or W-2,Most files I have ever used were more like 1095....If your going to use a unknown or scrap steel for your knife you must be willing to do some experimenting with it and test it..

For a Norton or Black Diamond file I usually oil quench and draw back in the 400-450 degree range for 2 hours and do the temper cycle twice,have to check the edge after the first temper and if to brittle bump the heat up about 5-10 degrees and try again untill the edge just stops chipping,then do one more temper cycle at that temp and then go finish your knife.

Bruce

The Soul of the Knife begins in the FIRE !!!!

 

[polarbearforge]

Unless you have a spectrograph, I don't think you'd be able to tell the 2 apart.

Actually, you can. The 0.20% vanadium difference between the two is very noticable when forging.

Jamie

 

[mete]

Actually there are different grades within the two - carbon content ranges from .60 -1.40 !!! So like any mystery steel you have to try it ! Use a light oil instead of water, it will be safer.

 

[MSCantrell]

Thanks, guys. That's pretty much what I was hoping for: the go-ahead on a regular ol' oil quench and the assurance that I can count on it working so long as I do it right.

Bruce, I think you're the first person I've seen say that! I've just been going along, completely confident that files were either W-1, W-2, or case-hardened junk. Guess I shouldn't jump so readily to conclusions. Fortunately, I'm familiar with 1095's sharp transformation nose, and

draw back in the 400-450 degree range for 2 hours and do the temper cycle twice

is pretty consistent with what I've read to do to 1095 (unless those were your instructions for 1095. In which case the question becomes, what time/temp to temper W1/W2?)

Thanks very much.

 

[Don Hanson III]

I use W1 and W2 (1.%carbon) and I like both steels but W2 is more difficult to forge and holds an edge longer, I also heat treat them the same as I do for 1095 with an oil quench.

 

[Raymond Richard]

Goddard and I tried to compair sparks between W-1 and W-2 a few years ago and couldn't see any difference doing that. The W-2 will harden deeper than the W-1 because of the vanadium which I most likly spelt wrong. Did clay on both and found a big difference. With the W-1 the hamon would end up where the clay stopped with the W-2 the hamon was much higher up. Like Bruce said the better modern files are more likely to be 1095.