How to tell the difference between usable knives, "wallhangers" & POS knives

Kaizen1

Kaizen1

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I can change the title if the mods feel the title is inappropriate for this subforum.

I thought this thread might help guide new folks that are interested in learning about the quality aspect of knives. Why might we prefer certain name brands or types of knives over the knives we might see at the local flee market, liquor store or knives we tend to see in Hollywood?

I've always been a fan of knives in general. I remember going to the local liquor stores and seeing a bunch of pocket knives in a case or watching the home shopping channels with Frost knives where you could buy 100 knives for like $60 and I would lust over them. Then there's the movie and TV knives I'd drool over as a kid. Here on the forums, we'll tend to see people favoring knives that are meant for use rather than just looks. I've noticed that many new folks come around and they are just as excited about knives but happen to have collected a bunch of knives that might not be ideal for real use. Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. This is a hobby and we're all welcome to enjoy whatever aspect of the knife world that we want.

I make the distinction between knives meant for use vs "wallhangers" vs just plain POS knives. Some knives just aren't designed to be used in any serious way. In my view, this would apply to the wallhangers and POS knives. To me, the difference between the wallhangers and the POS knives are that the wallhangers are clearly meant to be just for decoration. They're not necessarily trying to fool people. The POS knives on the other hand, are often designed to look like they can be used and are much more likely to break, not hold any edge, fail on you, etc, increasing your chance of injury.

Getting a knife that can be used that you can rely on doesn't necessarily need to cost a lot of money. Quite often, many of he wallhangers and POS knives can be found in the price range of knives that are meant for real use.

With that said, I was thinking that maybe some of the more experience knife users might give some input on how to tell the difference between knives that were meant for real use vs knives that weren't; some of which might even be dangerous for the knife holder to use. For instance, right off the bat I can probably safely say that knives made by Frost that you see on tv shopping networks or knives you tend to see in liquor store cases by the register are most often crap knives that I personally wouldn't trust my safety with. If other members want to get into the whys, I'll leave that to them.

If you, as a new person to knives or new to quality (usable) knives are curious if your collection or favorites knives are POS knives, feel free to post a picture and get other members feedback on the knives.
 
Great thread and catchy title, it caught my eye :D

I also started the same way many years ago....there's a big difference between the three you mentioned:

The Wallhanger - Art knife - LOTR stuff, the sword from highlander, the $20 katana, etc...are all wallhangers not meant for real use and typically out of unknown mystery steel.

The POS knife - typically found everywhere, gas stations, flee markets, county fairs, the local gun range for unsuspecting victims, etc....these knives "look" great but are made cheaply and are a hazard to anyone using them - also doesn't hold an edge.

The Real Knife - The real McCoy has real blade steel, better handle materials (or at least better refined than cheapies), has a good quality finish, feels better in the hand, typically better lock if we're talking about folders, and usually has a name that is well known in the knife industry :)

I'm sure there's more, but I'm working and can't fully think right now :o
 
Decor -- They usually have sheaths that are clearly flimsy to the touch but look great, because they're meant to be hung on a wall. A lot of them also come on display stands which is a big indicator. If there's a coating on them, there's generally some "splotches" and uneven parts because they just pain the coating on. Just being reasonable makes sense too... Are you going to get a good 16" bowie knife for $15?

POS Knives - I think this category is a little unfair, because a lot of the knives could be used, but aren't necessarily that great. I think a lot of Frost and Taylor liner locks can fall into this category, and they never really look like they're very bad, but one thing I find they have in common is pretty bad fit and finish. When they can't get the liners to stop flush, they have big rounded edges, there's just a simple pin pressed through a whole rather than any good fastener, and there's blade-play no matter what... It's probably not a good knife. Knives like this typically use 440 or some type of steel but never advertise that fact--strangely enough I see a lot of decorative knives that do.

Real knife -- Will typical have blade steel and model of the knife on the tang stamp. The fit and finish will be much tighter; everything will be square, symmetric and flush. The handle materials can be pretty wide ranging, and I'd say a lot of good knives come in 440 too so I don't think that a knife has to have premium steel to be good, but if it does that's usually a good indicator. One thing good, real knives tend to have ( but is also not an indicator that they're not good if lacking ) is a good 90 degree edge on the spine. You won't find any type of blade play in the folders, and if so it should have a good adjustable pivot. As far as weight goes... I wouldn't say that lighter knives are better, but I have found that a lot of very cheap knives are better left paper weights, and a lot of really good knives are much lighter than you'd expect. I think it comes down to the material used; a cheap brass handled knife is big and heavy, but a knife with G10 scales will probably be pretty light. One other thing I've heard to look for is a little "dent" in the blade somewhere. That's where they tested for hardness. Some knives of a cheaper variety will actually put a sticker up next to a big dent and put, "Hardened to 56 58 HRC" as if it were an advertisement... But generally speaking manufacturers that even bother to test produce okay quality knives.

I try not to generalize based on brand name, manufacturer, etc. I've bought some Frost Cuterly knives that seem pretty crappy; but at the same time I've bought a "Steel Warrior" congress pattern that is produced by Frost that is actually pretty decent.
 
When I started out asking about the difference between "nice" knives and POS's at our local forum. All the guys could tell me was that "nice" are quality. LOL They had a hard time explaining.

This would be a nice thread for people starting out and getting interested in knives.
 
When I have a question about a particular knife (or anything else, for that matter), I talk to someone who has owned and used that knife. And, if possible, I talk to a few more people who have owned and used that knife. Learning from others' experience is sometimes the best experience.

And that's why we are all here. . . .
 
my understanding is that...

POS is made to resemble a knife but...
it won't cut for long.
if it's a "locking" folder - beware!
hastily put togather fantasy toys with the most inferior of materials ever assembled.

wallhangers might as well be knife replicas.
art knives and decorative souvenirs are in a category by themselves and requires no explaination.
so it's about all other knives which looks exceedingly good on paper but turns out to be highly impractical either from a oversight in design or technical specifications.
 
A usable knife should have quality hardened fasteners. I had a Gerber folder that had stripped screws from the package. That is a no go in my opinion.
 
I'm pretty sure he didn't mean that those knives specifically were crap, just the majority of the ones offered were
 
You can pretty much determine quality by price. The knife manufacturers are pretty good at knowing what their products are worth. There are certainly some differences in overall value but I think price is probably a better indicator than anything else.
 
Pos knives usually are very shaky in the hand. That is they often rattle or have parts that should not be moving. Finish on the blade is usually cheap or poorly executed. Written text is often faded and too much. Often very tactical looking these days.
 
I try to stay away from knives that have the following words in the title; SWAT, Tactical, Ninja, Stealth, Extreme, Ultimate, Epic, Black Ops, Groovy, or Bear Grylls. :D

I used to buy knives based on looks when I was a kid. Now I buy them pretty much based on materials, ergonomics and company/maker reputation.
 
I think another tell-tale sign that a knife was made for actual use is when the steel specified either on the blade or the website. Many crap knives might say the steel, but they'll tend to be ambiguous like "440 Stainless" or "Stainless", where usable knives will tell you specifically what type of 440 steel they're using like "440A", "440B" or "440C."

Anytime you see more modern and common steels that you see mentioned here on BF stamped or etched onto the blade, that's a good sign that the knife was made for use. Steels like:

440A/B/C
154cm
CPM154 (BTW any steel that has the letters "CPM" in the name is likely made for real use)
S30V
ZDP189
S90V
M2, M4
52100
1095
etc
 
Knife Outlet said:
You can pretty much determine quality by price. The knife manufacturers are pretty good at knowing what their products are worth. There are certainly some differences in overall value but I think price is probably a better indicator than anything else.
Click to expand...

I disagree with price as any real indicator. Many Opinels, Moras, SAKs (Victorinox, Wegner), Gerbers, etc can be purchased from as low as $5 and up. However, there is a large number of crap knives that can be bought for under $10.
 
Nomad333 said:
I didn't know that Ka-Bar, Becker, and Gerber were "crappy" knives.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Ka-Bar and Becker aren't. :)

I'm not sure if Gerber makes a knife worth owning anymore, unless they are still making some in the US. I haven't seen a single one of their outsourced knives I would use except if nothing else were available.
 
Knife Outlet said:
You can pretty much determine quality by price. The knife manufacturers are pretty good at knowing what their products are worth. There are certainly some differences in overall value but I think price is probably a better indicator than anything else.
Click to expand...

I 100% disagree with this
 
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