How to undo the damage that some idiot did with a grinder

T

Tim@TATCA

Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
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This pertains to antique edged weapons that some "Induhvidual" has ground off all the patina so "Ta make it shiny"
What do bowie knife collectors or sword collectors do about these things? Anything?
For me I'm trying to bring a grinder abused 1800th century spike tomahawk back to some sort of acceptable finish. Has anyone had experiance with Birchwood Casey "plumb" gun blueing? Is slow rust blueing the answer? How do I do that? How do results vary? Thanks for your help guys.

Tim S
TATCA

http://members.tripod.com/tomahawks-r-tatca/index.htm
 
For a better response (and from makers). . .you might want to ask your questions in the Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers forum.

It's located several forums below this one. . .

Good luck.
 
run a search if you can, if not, you're just going to have to search through a week or two's worth of posts.
 
Tim,

It sounds like most of the item's value as an antique has been permanently destroyed. Once you lose the patina, and the surface, and the finish, not a whole lot is left. Often, it is virtually impossible to demonstrate that what is left was ever actually an antique.

At this point, you may want to get an opinion on what you have "as is" to see if it is worth anything. Once you determine that there is no significant antique value left, you are free to have it refinished to suit your tastes. Just make sure to protect your credibility by letting people know that it has been completely refinished.

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This is an example of an old authentic Japanese Samarai sword that has been completely redone. What ever collectible value it had as an antique sword had been destroyed by some idiot, and what was left was simply salvaged as raw material for this project. It is sad, but it happens.

n2s
 
It sounds like most of the item's value as an antique has been permanently destroyed. Once you lose the patina, and the surface, and the finish, not a whole lot is left. Often, it is virtually impossible to demonstrate that what is left was ever actually an antique.
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Exactly.

It took a hundred years for the original patina to develope and it will take a hundred more to restore it. There is no way to accellerate this process which can not be detected by an expert. Once your fraud is discovered, the piece will be unveiled for what is has become: a fake. (In collecting-speak, a fake is an authentic piece that has been reworked or altered to change its apparent condition. A piece that is not authentic is called a counterfeit.)

The fact is that the aforementioned Induhvidual ruined the piece.

Now, there are exceptions to this in oriental and expecially Japaneese cutlery. The rules are completely different for these things. I don't understand that market at all. But, if a sword or knife is restored in a "ritually-correct" way by an appropriately-qualified "master", then it can actually increase in value. Collectors in this market often see value of the item not in terms of an authentic antique or historical artifact, but they see some -- well, for want of a better word -- some "spiritual" value to the item. So, the rules are completely different in that market.
 
I'm no collector, so my advice doesn't take into account what a refinish would do to the value of the piece. If knives are anything like guns you'll only make things worse.

I doubt that bluing is what you are after. Several people ahead of me have posted remarks about the patina developing over time, and even a high quality rust blue will not match that. If you just want to give it a decent looking finish that will protect the metal, and you think a gun blue would look good, don't settle for anything less than a rust blue. Both cold and hot blues look nothing like a rust job. They don't wear very well either.

I would also caution you away from BC's Plum Brown finish. It matches the color of a natural patina but it is not wear resistant at all. It really just deposits a layer of copper on the metal which doesn't provide much weathering potection or wear resistance. I just finished up a Mauser with it and the finish looks very 'shallow', although it matches a natural patina in color. With some vigourous rubbing with even non-abrasive cloth I can expose the metal.

One thing that works well with steel traps in dyeing the metal. I boil my traps in black walnut hulls, although there are commercial dyes available. It gives them a nice black / brown finish that lasts all season through some pretty hard use. I believe this gives you something as close to a natural patina as you can get. They have to have some surface rust before it will work. I boil new traps in soap and water, then bury them for a few days. (Yep, I'm a hillbilly)

Again, you would probably only hurt the collector value of the piece by doing any of these things.
 
The maker that I know who has the greatest appreciation and understnding of this type of artifact Is Joe Szilaski. He has written several articles on the tomahawk and would gladly share thoughts with you. He has a Web Site. www.Szilaski.com
 
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